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Hall of Fame weekend “kind of sad”, “not as much excitement”

Jul 27, 2013, 6:45 PM EDT

No, Hideki Matsui is not a Hall of Famer

The Baseball Writers Association of America opted not to elect any new living members to the Hall of Fame for the first time since 1965. Scott Miller of CBS Sports asked some living legends about the atmosphere in Cooperstown, New York, and the sentiment wasn’t very positive.

“This year, it’s kind of sad,” former Cardinals great Bob Gibson said.


“There’s not as much excitement on Main Street as there usually is, and there are fewer guys,” Reds infield legend Joe Morgan said. “There’s usually 40 to 50, and I heard there’s 34. So obviously, that’s a little different.

“But it’s still the Hall of Fame, know what I mean?”

When balloting was completed in January, first-timers Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa and others fell short of the 75 percent requirement. Biggio came closest with 68.2 percent of the vote. Jack Morris, in his 14th year on the ballot, received 67.7 percent and will have one more shot at getting in next year.

Major League Baseball seems to enjoy shooting itself in the foot over the performance-enhancing drugs issue. By allowing the BBWAA to make a moral stand against PED users, known or suspected, they effectively kill interest in the Hall of Fame. What reason do fans have to visit the Hall of Fame, or watch the induction ceremony? By suspending Ryan Braun for the rest of the season, what reason do Brewers fans have to keep up with the team over the final two months? MLB is its worst enemy, even when they outsource outrage to the BBWAA.

Eventually, the process will need to be amended to get a more diverse set of opinions and to ensure that at least one new member is inducted every year, lest we have a second consecutive year of… well, nothing. The 2014 ballot will feature a handful of shoo-ins, including Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, and Mike Mussina.

  1. thebadguyswon - Jul 27, 2013 at 6:51 PM

    The Hall has turned into the BBWAA’s personal playground. I couldn’t care less how sad it was.

    Fuck the Hall of Fame.

    • sfsugator - Jul 28, 2013 at 2:22 PM

      The baseball hall of fame is hypocrite land and full of idiots who vote them in, how Barry Bonds is not in probably the most talented hitter of all time oh an the all time home run king baseball nerds, baseball won’t let my child hood heros an guys I grew up watching in the 90’s an 2000’s is criminal an baseball is tarnished for that reason alone. Selig had no problem when dudes were hitting moon shots, jus sayin.

  2. largebill - Jul 27, 2013 at 6:52 PM

    “By allowing the BBWAA to make a moral stand against PED users, known or suspected, they effectively kill interest in the Hall of Fame”

    I get dumping on Selig and MLB, but how exactly did MLB “allow” the BBWAA to take a moral stand and not vote any one in? Was Bud Selig supposed to review ballots before they were submitted?

  3. shea801 - Jul 27, 2013 at 6:56 PM

    My favorite part about the BBWAA is the hypocrisy, sanctimony, and self righteousness. The phony outrage ain’t bad either.

    • southofheaven81 - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:04 PM

      Ty Cobb was the first man elected. Beat up a black guy in the dugout during a game for teying to snake his hand BUT HE NEVER TOOK DRUGS.

      • southofheaven81 - Jul 27, 2013 at 11:32 PM

        Trying. To. Shake. Jesus tap-dancing Christ can we PLEASE get an edit option?!?!

  4. connormyboy - Jul 27, 2013 at 6:57 PM

    The way they vote for the baseball hall is horseshit.

    • thebadguyswon - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:06 PM

      Yes it is. Complete and total horseshit.

  5. tfbuckfutter - Jul 27, 2013 at 6:59 PM

    Mike Mussina is considered a “shoe-in”?

    • nbjays - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:07 PM

      I was just about to post that, Buck. Apparently in some alternate universe…

    • chew1985 - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:18 PM

      Mussina’s stats compare favorably with Bob Feller. In fact, mostly he outdoes Feller. He was too introverted for his own good to be sure. He also had the decency not to stick around and embarrass himself for 3 more seasons just so he could reach the 300 win mark. And he refused to kiss the writers’ asses. For that alone, he is a Hall of Famer in my book.

    • genericcommenter - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:40 PM

      I don’t think he is in reality, but it is justified by his career stats (new and old school). I would say he’s not “first ballot,” but in his career he ranks well ahead of someone like Jack Morris, who is at least getting awfully close to getting in eventually.

      He was definitely better than Glavine by the way, if you take luck out of the equation. Mussina should have won the 2001 Cy Young, and his placement in those votes was often inexplicably low, when he wasn’t dealing with being #2 to a crazy-great Pedro. There was no way Clemens was better that year, let alone jokes like Jamie Moyer. And while people are punishing juicers, there’s good reason to believe Clemens, who rarely lasted more than 6 innings and was very overrated at that point in his career was partaking.

      In baseball-ref WAR for pitchers, Mussina is 24th all-time. 5 All-Stars, 7 Gold Gloves, CY votes in 9 seasons, Won 117 more games than he lost, close to 300 wins and 3000 k (top 20 career), 123 ERA+, 17th all-time K/BB ratio, so on.

      In Baseball Reference Hall standards, he’s well over avg HOFer in everything but Black Ink. JAWS= 28th Starting Pitcher, well above avg HOFer in career, and competitive on 7 year-peak.

      in 2001 Cy Young 1 through 5:

      1. 5.6 3.51 213 0 0 128
      2. 5.6 3.45 153 6 4 126
      3. 4.2 3.05 163 4 3 135
      4. 3.4 3.43 119 1 0 120
      5. 7.1 3.15 214 4 3 143

      Voting like that ^ was just as much of a joke as the Hall.
      Then you had seasons like 2000 when he was obviously the 2nd best starting pitcher in the AL behind crazy-dominant Pedro, but he was 11-15. Because Orioles.

      He was a top 8 pitcher in the AL most of the entire time between 1992-2008, and a top 5 guy around half those seasons. He was the best starting pitcher on some very good Yankees teams that were stacked, in additional to carrying the Orioles most of the time with them- how do you lose with a 0.60 ERA, 25 Ks, and 4 hits in 15 innings in the post-season? Play for the Orioles. He was objectively better than CY Young winners by a comfortable margin, and anyone who thinks someone was Chien Ming Wang or a pedestrian Clemens was better is just in love with the Wins stat above everything else that matters.

      Mussina was a lot better than the credit he received. He was either overshadowed by guys who were just once in a generation dominant like Pedro, overrated like Clemens in his late career, or the recipients of more pitcher Wins and almost nothing else.

      • RoyHobbs39 - Jul 28, 2013 at 8:51 AM

        Thanks for this.

  6. okwhitefalcon - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:01 PM

    MIke Mussina a first ballot “shoe in”?

    Not gonna happenBill, not gonna happen.

  7. bigjimatch - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:03 PM

    Mussina a shoe in? are you reporting from the Hall of the Very Good?

    • genericcommenter - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:42 PM

      Or better than half of the Starting Pitchers already in the Hall. That might be a reasonable stat to consider.

      • alang3131982 - Jul 28, 2013 at 9:55 AM

        Mussina should be a shoo-in. I dont think he is in the bizarro world of the voting intelligensia.

  8. ctony1216 - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:08 PM

    No, BBWAA didn’t kill interest in the Hall of Fame this year. The players who took steroids did.

    When guys like Mariano Rivera and Chipper Jones get elected in years to come, the streets of Cooperstown will be packed again.

    • thebadguyswon - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:17 PM

      Who cares? Have you ever been? Its a nice museum, but boring as hell.

    • ghstmnnfrst - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:11 PM

      So what you are saying is that Biggio and Piazza were rightfully excluded because of their proximity to the “Steroid Era” and the BBWAA was justified in destroying the credibility of the voting process? Two legit HOFers were left out because other players cheated? Seriously?

    • genericcommenter - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:44 PM

      Yeah, except the guys who should have been voted in but weren’t had absolutely 0 connection to steroids. Perhaps to “punish” the steroids guys, they should have voted in some ostensibly “clean” guys.

  9. Walk - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:11 PM

    What did biggio do to not make it in? If he is not good enough to make it on the first ballot then he is not good enough to ever make it in. There needs to be some kind of accountability for these voters the voting process has been a joke for too many years now. I hesitate to call it a bucket list, but I do have a list of places I wish to visit and cooperstown keeps slipping down that list.

  10. hojo20 - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:13 PM

    Biggio will have to buy a ticket to watch the Maddux induction. Also, Mussina? C’mon he’s not an immortal player.

    • genericcommenter - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:46 PM

      90% of the guys in the Hall are not immortal players, including some really great ones. I think how inclusive to be is a reasonable debate, but it was decided a LONG time ago to have a pretty wide HOF.

  11. joshtown81 - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:17 PM

    “By suspending Ryan Braun for the rest of the season, what reason do Brewers fans have to keep up with the team over the final two months? Baseball is its own worst enemy…”

    Bill, are you saying MLB should have done nothing, and they should be faulted for punishing Braun? Wouldn’t a far worse outcome be if MLB had NOT acted, thus turing off fans everywhere? Not understand your logic at all here…

  12. stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:18 PM

    I hate the Yanks but Moose should absolutely be in the Hall. He was a better pitcher than Glavine, albeit with fewer accolades. Moose received Cy Young votes in over half the seasons he pitched in. He was a poor man’s Maddux who opted for retirement rather than hanging on to post mediocre seasons to reach the arbitrary 300 threshold like Glavine & others. Like Robbie alone & many others he won’t make it in 1st ballot, but that’s just another indictment of the bwaa.

    • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:19 PM

      Robbie Alomar

    • tfbuckfutter - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:28 PM

      Mediocre seasons like 2004, 2005, and 2007?

      He hung on until he FINALLY hit the threshold of 20 wins and then hung it up at the ripe old age of 39.

      It likely would have taken him 3 more seasons to top 300 wins.

      • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:40 PM

        Yep, Mussina retired at age 39 off a 20-win, 200 IP, 131 ERA+ season… sitting at 270 wins.

        Thru age 39 Glavine had 275 wins. He opted to hang around 3 more years, with a perfectly mediocre 100+ ERA that allowed him to reach the arbitrary 300 magic number.

        Tommy spent his entire career in the NL, facing opposing pitchers, while Moose was in the AL for his career facing designated hitters. And yet Mussina finished with a better career ERA+, WHIP, K/BB ratio, WAR, etc.

        Glavine had a fantastic career and should be in the Hall. Mussina’s uphill battle to get in will just expose the ignorance of the BBWAA and general baseball fan base.

      • tfbuckfutter - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:54 PM

        That’s not a fair representation of Glavine’s twilight.

        His ERA+ for his 40 and 41 year old seasons was 105.

        Coming back for the Braves in 2008, after he had already achieved 300 wins, is what dragged him into mediocre territory.

        He only had 1 poor season before his 41st year (when he likely should have retired, but apparently wanted one more shot with the Braves for sentimentality not to reach any other milestones).

        Mussina was sub-par in 3 of his final 5 seasons.

        However, I wasn’t really comparing the two (nor was I comparing him to Robbie Alomar). I was just pointing out that Mussina was inconsistent, and quit when he achieved the final milestone he was most likely capable of achieving….

        As for comparing the two, sorry but the 300 wins makes Glavine a more attractive candidate. Not to mention twice being recognized as the best pitcher in his league vs never being considered better than 4th best.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:55 PM

        He hung on until he FINALLY hit the threshold of 20 wins and then hung it up at the ripe old age of 39.

        Why is 20 the threshold? Did it really matter considering he won 19 games in ’95 and ’96 and 18 games in ’92, ’99 and ’02? He got shafted out of the CY in ’01 because Clemens went 20-3. Seriously, who’s the better pitcher

        A – 33 GS, 220.1 IP – 3.51 ERA, 86 ER, 72 BB, 213 K, 128 ERA+
        B – 34 GS, 228.2 IP – 3.15 ERA, 80 ER, 42 BB, 214 K, 143 ERA+

        First guy won the CY, second got placed 5th(!)

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:01 PM

        He only had 1 poor season before his 41st year (when he likely should have retired, but apparently wanted one more shot with the Braves for sentimentality not to reach any other milestones).

        Mussina was sub-par in 3 of his final 5 seasons.

        How are you defining sub par? If you literally mean below average, then Glavine had five seasons before age 41, 4 if you remove the 50 innings he pitched as a 21 year old.

        Not to mention twice being recognized as the best pitcher in his league vs never being

        Who would you pick as the better pitcheR?

        A – 33 GS – 229.1 IP, 2.47 ERA, 4 CG, 3 SHO, 63 ER, 74 BB, 157 K, 168 ERA+
        B – 35 GS – 257.0 IP, 2.38 ERA, 7 CG, 3 SHO, 68 ER, 49 BB, 257 K, 164 ERA+

        I’m picking B, 28 more IP, only 5 more ER, 35 less BB and 100 more K’s. Well A won the CY and B took 3rd. A is Glavine, B is Kevin Brown.

        In ’91 he was the best pitcher in the league. I stated above how Mussina should have won a CY as the best pitcher in ’01.

      • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:10 PM

        Glavine: 3952 IP, 275 wins, 1.30 WHIP, 1.76 K/BB, 69 WAR (bbref)

        Mussina: 3563 IP, 270 wins, 1.19 WHIP, 3.58 K/BB, 83 WAR

        And FWIW, the postseason totals…

        Glavine: 218 IP (6+ per start), 1.27 WHIP, 1.00 K/BB

        Mussina: 140 IP (6+ per start), 1.10 WHIP, 4.39 K/BB

        Look, I get that it’s the Hall of *Fame*. Glavine won two Cy Young awards, while Moose never took home the hardware (instead only picking up Cy Young votes 9 different seasons, the same number as Greg Maddux). And Glavine won a World Series ring, while Moose joined the Yanks at the wrong time and never won a title. And nobody remembers/cares that Moose was the guy that came out of the bullpen (on 2 days rest) to bail out Roger Clemens & the Yanks in Game 7 of the Aaron bleepin’ Boone game, tossing 3 scoreless innings to allow the comeback to eventually happen. That kinda sums up Mussina’s career.

        If he’d hung around for a few more years to chase an arbitrary number, that would have appeased the voters and general fan base. But he didn’t, and so it’ll take some time before his name is actually called. I doubt he’ll care too much.

      • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:11 PM

        ^ Thru age 39

      • tfbuckfutter - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:12 PM

        Don’t forget Moose also pitched a 26-out perfect game against rival Red Sox before Carl Everett blooped a single.

        Which always summed up his career to me until he actually won 20 games.

        BTW, your name is awesome, Boner.

      • tfbuckfutter - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:16 PM

        Also, FWIW, I was never arguing that Glavine IS a shoe-in for the Hall.

        Nor was I, initially, even arguing his merits vs Mussina’s.

        Even though they are both close cases, I will say Glavine’s is more Hall worthy based on the current established standards.

        If he didn’t have 300 wins and 2 Cy Youngs I would consider them both marginal.

      • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:21 PM

        Ah, good call on the near perfecto. That Carl Everett was the guy to dump that ball into CF somehow seems even more perfect.

        Anyway, like I said, I despise the Yanks like lots of other peeps (and not a fan of the O’s) but Moose had a remarkable career that will never be fully appreciated.

        The whole first ballot thing is silly. As time passes it means virtually nothing what year or how many tries it took for a guy’s name to be called. If they feel that strongly about the first-year thing they should simply raise the threshold (e.g. 80% of the vote) for the first-time-eligible guys, and then have it drop to the usual standard thereafter. But to simply refuse to vote for a guy (which has happened to *every* player in the history of the game) on the sole basis that it’s the first year he’s eligible is so blatantly stupid. Oy.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:53 PM

        Don’t forget Moose also pitched a 26-out perfect game against rival Red Sox before Carl Everett blooped a single.

        It was Everett’s duty as a Christian to get that single, because he doesn’t believe in perfect games since they aren’t mentioned in the Bible.

        [thats stretching for a joke]

  13. bankboy2012 - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:22 PM

    Yeah, shocking that the induction of 3 guys who’ve been dead for 70+ years wouldn’t draw a huge crowd. The biggest reason to go this year was to see the living HOF’ers and even they couldn’t be bothered to all come.

  14. yolacrary - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:32 PM

    it’s “shoo-in”

  15. cackalackyank - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:51 PM

    Owners and writers need to get it through their heads who the game and the Hall of Fame are for. Its for the money of course. No, but seriously folks, while the boys are raking the money in maybe
    they could pause for a brief moment and remember the source of their income- the fans.

  16. elwaysmilehighdenver - Jul 27, 2013 at 7:54 PM

    Jack Morris should be in the HOF.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:09 PM

      He can buy a ticket like the rest of us. He’d have the worst ERA of any pitcher in the HoF, and he’s worse than almost every pitcher coming up on the ballot in the next few years (including worse than guys like Kevin Brown who fell off after one year).

    • imnotyourbuddyguy - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:09 PM

      If Morris is in, then Mussina is a no brainer, and Glavine, and may as well apologize to Stieb. Should also get a spot ready for Cole Hammels as well.

    • paperlions - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:16 PM

      Morris isn’t even one of the 20 best pitchers not in the HOF.

  17. paperlions - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:18 PM

    Mussina is horribly under rated. He was a far better pitcher than Glavine, who most people probably view as a HOFer….good luck finding any reasonable basis to argue that Glavine was anywhere near as good as Mussina.

    • imnotyourbuddyguy - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:24 PM

      Three Hun…..ohhhhhh reasonable basis…kk, nevermind friend

    • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:58 PM

      Well first off, EVERYONE should view a 300+ game winner, with multiple Cy Young awards and a World Series title (in which he was named WS MVP) as a Hall of Famer. Otherwise we’re quickly slipping towards the Posnanski Willie Mays HOF.

      But yeah, Mussina–minus some of the accolades–was pretty clearly just as good as Glavine, with a pretty dang good case for being better.

      Both should be in the Hall. As far as the 1st ballot vs. having to wait, that’s just the standard BBWAA horsesh*t.

  18. sillec28 - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:38 PM

    The writer of this article needs to rethink it. If the BB writers didn’t think anyone deserved it, for whatever reason, they shouldn’t vote someone in just to be voting someone in. And why should there be a rule that at least one person has to be inducted every year? The HOF is supposed to honor the players’ achievements, it’s not there just to give the writers something to write about.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:52 PM

      If the BB writers didn’t think anyone deserved it, for whatever reason, they shouldn’t vote someone in just to be voting someone in

      He’s not saying they should vote someone in just to vote them in. He’s saying there were plenty of overqualified players who should have been voted in, which the BBWAA didn’t do.

    • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:52 PM

      Of course the writers shouldn’t feel an obligation to vote for someone simply to fill a spot each year. But that was obviously not the case this time around.

      • paperlions - Jul 28, 2013 at 8:48 AM

        Yet, every year they vote to give a writer a life-time achievement award which his hung in the museum, whether there is a deserving writer or not….and based on many of the winners, there usually is not. In addition, they insist on referring to each other as HOF writers, despite the fact that receiving awards for broadcasting or writing does not make one a HOFer.

  19. dumbassgreg - Jul 27, 2013 at 8:49 PM

    please this chance for bunch weak lame gutless reporters like mike lupina to get payback. they were to gutless to say anything during steriods time. they were like chicks digging the long ball.steve wilstein was one guy with balls. rest of corporate american media told him shut up . much like american media when it comes americans sprinters ie flo and carl lewis. for all those people so upset about steriods in baseball do you watch football. seriously if the ever start really testing in that sport. they will not have enough players to play . lmao we don’t even need to talk about thnigs like babe ruth etc records lack of black players lol. reason ruth, cy young etc set crazy records. most of the players they played against could not play a sunday in the park game today. lmao

  20. jrocknstuff - Jul 27, 2013 at 9:13 PM

    Baffles me that Biggio finished with 3,060 hits, was never once accused of anything close to juicing and can’t find his way into the hall. The guy wins a Silver Slugger award as a catcher, then switches to second base and wins 4 gold gloves. Not really the easiest thing to do. Absolute disgrace that he wasn’t in on the first ballot.

  21. irishdodger - Jul 27, 2013 at 9:17 PM

    Comparing Mussina vs Glavine is similar to comparing Don Sutton vs Steve Carlton. Glavine & Carlton won all the hardware but Mussina & Sutton have comparable numbers.

    Meanwhile, couldn’t the Veterans Committee at least finally induct Gil Hodges? WTH?

    • stabonerichard - Jul 27, 2013 at 9:53 PM

      Yeah that’s a pretty good comparison.

      Another one I like is Andy Pettitte & Chuck Finley. In this case neither is worthy of the HOF, but very similar pitchers where one guy will get pretty serious consideration while the other will be better known as Tawny Kitaen’s b*tch.

  22. thebadguyswon - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:38 PM

    The steroid hysteria BBWAA verdict that makes me laugh is Mike Piazza vs Frank Thomas.

    Piazza is deemed a hardcore PED user by these idiots, and The Big Hurt gets a free pass. My point is….why is one considered guilty and the other seen as squeaky clean? If Mike Piazza, who played in the exact time as Thomas is a PED user, why isn’t Thomas? Because of Murray Chass and his latent homosexual obsession with Piazza?

    This is why the BBWAA can go fuck themselves. Their entire rationale makes no sense.

  23. cackalackyank - Jul 27, 2013 at 10:44 PM

    Two words for ya. Tommy John

  24. royalintx - Jul 27, 2013 at 11:32 PM

    My God…I hope you guys are not getting paid to write this crap.
    Are you guys sticking needles up each others’ asses every day before you get on the computer?
    You are embarrassing yourselves daily.

  25. norvturnersneck - Jul 28, 2013 at 2:51 AM

    Mussina isn’t a “shoe in”, but he is a HoFer. He had 270 wins with 8 seasons of 18+ wins. He pitched in the AL his entire career and had an ERA of under 3.7 for his career in a PED-infested sport. Most of his years were in a sorry Baltimore franchise where he was surrounded by lackluster talent.

    Best thing of all, he was 39 when he had his only 20 game win season. He could have stuck around like Ryan did to get 300, but why when you have almost a 2-1 win rate in your career.

    Oh yeah, he had more strikeouts than Glavine and he didn’t look pathetic like Glavine did his last 2 years with his ERA well over 4. Virtually the same ERA as him though and way less losses.

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