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A reminder: there is almost certainly a current Hall of Famer who used PEDs

Aug 6, 2013, 10:31 AM EDT


And I’m not even talking about greenies or horse liniment or whatever old school product that enhanced performance even if people today want to act like it didn’t. I’m talking about steroids or HGH or PEDs in that general category.  We like to pretend that there isn’t anyone who did that before Jose Canseco, but that’s almost certainly false.

Evidence? For one thing there was Thomas Boswell in Ken Burns’ “Baseball” documentary update “The Tenth Inning,” who said that he personally witnessed a current Hall of Famer take a PED-laden shake:

“There was another player now in the Hall of Fame who literally stood with me and mixed something and I said “What’s that?” and he said “it’s a Jose Canseco milkshake”. And that year that Hall of Famer hit more home runs than ever hit any other year. So it wasn’t just Canseco, and so one of the reasons that I thought that it was an important subject was that it was spreading. It was already spreading by 1988.”

Everyone forgets that and Boswell tends to keep pretty silent about that come Hall of Fame voting time in December.

Then, just last night came this interesting tidbit from Patty Blyleven, first wife of Hall of Famer Bert Blyleven, from Ross Newhan’s Facebook page just last night:


No, I do not consider Patty Blyleven to be an authoritative source on such matters. She may be passing things along third hand for all we know. But it’s naive in the extreme to think that the first ballplayer to ever take PEDs and then try to enter the Hall of Fame was Mark McGwire or someone of his era.

101 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. contraryguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:40 AM

    Didn’t we go over this one when the HOF vote came up empty? Andre Dawson, right?

    • beearl - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:50 AM

      Dawson wasn’t voted into the Hall until 2010. The 10th Inning addendum to Ken Burns’ Baseball was made in 2007. Boswell could have been referring to Wade Boggs who voted into the Hall in 2005 and had a career-high (by a lot) 24 HR in 1987. Would fit the “by 1988” in the quote.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:04 AM

        Yeah, but a lot of guys had career highs in home runs in 1987. It was a weird year for baseball. 29 players hit 30 or more home runs that year(compared to 13 in 1986 and 5 in 1987). In the context of the league as a whole, Boggs’s 24 home runs don’t actually look all that weird.

      • contraryguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:10 AM

        Yeah 1987 brought up more than a few ‘live-ball’ accusations, maybe because the PED concept was not yet known in baseball… which was juiced, the ball or the players?

    • skeealaska - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:30 AM

      I could imagine Ryne Sandberg.

    • pinkfloydprism - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:37 AM

      My bet is Ricky Henderson… he played with Canseco. And, in 1990 he hit the most homeruns of his career (tied with 86). But, there is no evidence of this. Just a suspicion on my part. In all truth, it probably is not him… But, if Boswell is referring to 1988, there are 2 hall of fame players in the top 20 for home runs that year – and they establishe career high numbers well before that year.

      1: Jose Canseco (42)
      2: Darryl Strawberry (39)
      3: Fred McGriff (34)
      4: Mark McGwire (32)
      5: Glenn Davis (30)
      6: Will Clark (29)
      7: Andres Galarraga (29)
      8: Gary Gaetti (28)
      9: Eddie Murray (28)* Hall of Fame – Career high 33 hr in 1983
      10: Kevin McReynolds (27)
      11: Jack Clark (27)
      12: Joe Carter (27)
      13: Eric Davis (26)
      14: Cory Snyder (26)
      15: Danny Tartabull (26)
      16: Andy Van Slyke (25)
      17: Kent Hrbek (25)
      18: Kirk Gibson (25)
      19: Bo Jackson (25)
      20: Dave Winfield (25)* Hall of Fame – Career high 37 hr in 1982

      • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:01 PM

        Canseco said there was a juicer in the Hall, woudn’t say who it was, but was asked about Henderson, and said he had “no knowledge” of Henderson using.

        Nolan Ryan or Cal Ripken are more likely

      • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:25 PM

        “Rickey Henderson knows what pumps through Rickey’s veins is superior to any steroid or PED known to man, Rickey wouldn’t dilute what Rickey has with that substandard junk”

        -Rickey Henderson

      • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:30 PM

        Also, Henderson hit 24 HR in ’85, 28 in ’86. So Rickey hitting 28 in 1990 doesn’t even come close to qualifying.

      • pinkfloydprism - Aug 6, 2013 at 3:01 PM

        Did you even read my post? I said he tied a career high.

        also, just because an athlete says he did not juice, we believe him? Or was it because he said it in third person?

  2. apkyletexas - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:41 AM

    How about the guys who were trying to extend their careers a few extra years, during the time that steroids were getting big in football? A Reggie Jackson or a Nolan Ryan perhaps? Would it make them less worthy if they tried them the last 2-3 years, as they limped across the finish line of amazing careers? If they used them just to try to keep going through the daily grind – not to really “enhance” performance?

    • Old Gator - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:16 AM

      Hannibal Lecter has a recipe for guys like that.

  3. jeffbbf - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:43 AM

    Why do I need to be reminded of this? A lot of murders go unsolved. Does this mean that all murderers should walk free because some got away with it?

    • natslady - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:48 AM

      Exactly. Another stupid CC post.

      • blacksables - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:50 AM

        Compared to your comments?

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:06 AM

        Exactly. Another stupid CC post.

        I don’t understand what your problem is. Did Craig’s trolling of nats fans get that under your skin or something? It’s bad enough you literally miss the point on every one of his posts now, but you literally make a personal attack on every single article lately.

      • 18thstreet - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM


    • cur68 - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM

      Um…its not murder. Its PEDs. The players are only harming themselves. Unlike the erratic nature of a 96mph spitball, over which the thrower has limited control, steroid use is nearly 100% self victimization and poses very little risk to other players on a day to day basis. If you want to go all “murder” and “life and death” you have a better chance at making the equivalency with the spitballers than the juicers.

      • dan1111 - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:00 AM

        The point was not steroids=murder.

        Using something more serious, like murder, is useful for the sake of argument, because we all agree (hopefully) that murder should be punished. The point that Craig makes here (some people get away with it) could be applied to murder just as easily as steroids, and yet it doesn’t change our opinion of whether murder should be punished. Therefore, the fact that some people got away with steroid use should likewise have no bearing on whether we think steroid use should be punished.

      • cur68 - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:46 AM

        And my point, Dan is that the murder analogies with PEDs DO NOT WORK because THEY ARE NOT EQUIVALENT. Hence the argument is one huge fail from the outset.

      • jeffbbf - Aug 6, 2013 at 2:16 PM

        Fine. Replace murder with “speeding” or “illegal leaf burning”. Just stop being such a tool

      • cur68 - Aug 6, 2013 at 5:02 PM

        haha. You funny. You made a ridiculous comparison on the internet, got corrected by a multitude of people and still have the balls call other people names because you’re dense. Nice one! Tell me, is this an act or are you always this ridiculous?

    • dan1111 - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:53 AM

      Yeah, I don’t see what the point is.

      I suppose the argument is “the Hall of Fame is already tainted”, but the argument does not really work. If one believes that steroids taint the Hall, then intentionally enshrining a steroid user is much worse than unknowingly doing so.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM

        If one believes that steroids taint the Hall, then intentionally enshrining a steroid user is much worse than unknowingly doing so.

        The point is that many writers and current HoF members are saying we should be careful about the current crop of eligible players because it’d be awful if a PED user was in the HoF. They are trying to protect the “sanctity” of the Hall. It’s horseshit because, as Craig notes, there already is someone in the HoF who has used PEDs.

      • 18thstreet - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:04 PM

        If they’re worried about the sanctity of the Hall of Fame, they need to take steps to kick Tom Yawkey out.

    • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:08 AM

      Pushing aside the absurd comparison between murder and PED use for a moment…

      The point is, cheating in baseball is not new. Be it PEDs, greenies, spitballs, etc. PED use wasn’t invented by Jose Canseco (despite his claims otherwise). It’s just that people selectively single out the 1990s/2000s when the focus on PEDs and conveniently ignore the cheating of the past, or worse, romanticize them all pure and true.

      • paperlions - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:39 PM

        ….and not only that but steroid use is not new.

        Besides the fact that there are likely multiple former steroid users in the HOF, the public hypocrisy is noteworthy….a former steroid user ripping more recent steroid users for using steroids. I wish I was shocked.

  4. jayscarpa - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:46 AM

    This would have more relevance, if any, a few weeks ago.

  5. tcostant - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:47 AM

    It’s Cal

    • Rich Stowe - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:52 AM

      I’ve always thought that it might have been Cal in 1999 – he only played in 86 games or so but also had his best batting average and slugging % of his career that season…I’ve always wondered if the injuries finally got to him and he used for 1 season to “get better”…

    • nolanwiffle - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM

      I don’t think Boswell would ever say or write anything publicly that might do harm to Cal’s legacy. Too much admiration there.

      • dadawg77 - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:34 PM

        Well he didn’t name names, so that would fit with your theory.

      • tcostant - Aug 6, 2013 at 4:27 PM

        I agree, I’m guessing based on what player would do that in front of Boswell. Since he cover those team, it just a guess. Boswell has never said who

  6. jcj5y - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:51 AM

    You probably didn’t mean to imply otherwise, but Boswell, per Washington Post policy, doesn’t vote in the Hall of Fame election. But I hadn’t seen that quote from him before. I’m going to ask about it next time he has one of his weekly chats. Boz has some relatively nuanced views on the HOF issue:

  7. stoutfiles - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:52 AM

    No. No! That’s not true! That’s impossible!

    • aceshigh11 - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:35 AM

      Search your feelings…you KNOW it to be true.

      • Old Gator - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:59 AM

        Luke – I am your father. Statistical probabilities make it unnecessary for you to search your feelings.

        ….Steve Garvey

      • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:04 PM

        Vader never said “Luke, I am your father”

        Luke – “He told me you killed him”
        Vader – “No, I … am your father”

      • Old Gator - Aug 6, 2013 at 2:19 PM

        He never said anything about statistical probabilities either. Deal with it.

  8. lessick - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:58 AM

    Well, we know that there are PED users in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, where there is little outrage. The PED use in football pre-dates the career of Jose Canseco, so sure, we should not be surprised if a baseball Hall of Famer used PEDs.

    • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:26 PM

      Baseball people believe in the sanctimony of its stats and history

  9. cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 10:59 AM

    …and almost certainly someone who used steroids in the 90s will end up in the hall. We just won’t know that they used. Basically, the BBWAA has decided that everyone who had muscles and hit home runs must have used and those who don’t didn’t. This despite the countless number of smaller guys and pitchers who we know have used steroids. At some point we’ll realize that a Craig Biggio or John Smoltz used too(random examples only guys!), and that they’re in the hall not because they played clean, but because they got away with it.

    Maybe, just maybe we should realize that Major League Baseball treated the steroid problem with a wink and a nod, that players in that era were basically just using a more advanced form of cheating that occurred in every era and stop turing the annual hall of fame voting into a “did he or didn’t he” guessing game. It happened, get over it. To quote Bob Gibson: “Guys have always been cheating. Period. It just takes a little different form today. I’m just glad they didn’t have steroids when I was playing. I don’t know what I would have done. “

  10. dlf9 - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:00 AM

    Carlton Fisk

    • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM

      Hit his career high in home runs in 1985. I doubt he was making what he called “Jose Canseco Milkshakes” while Canseco was in AAA.

      • dlf9 - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:26 AM

        I doubt he called it a Canseco milkshake, but Fisk played (a) well after Tom House indicated that steroids were being used in baseball (b) well after steroids were frequently used by Olympic athletes in both power and speed events (c) was widely known for his weightlifting as one of the earliest and loudest adhearants of muscle building for baseball players (to the degree that his early nickname of Pudge seemed hilarious by the mid 80s) (d) had a very unusual career progression akin to that of Bonds or Clemens and (e) played for the Typhoid Mary of the “PED era” Tony LaRussa. I think the circumstantial evidence against Fisk is as strong as against any non-analytical test player.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:40 AM

        1. The Tom Boswell quote that I assumed you were referencing, a player specifically says “Jose Canseco Milkshake”. This is what Boswell said the player called it.

        2. His career progression. Okay, how about this guy:
        A). Best HR/AB Ratios: Age 39, Age 37, Age 35, Age 38, Age 28, Age 36. Yes, he was smacking home runs far more frequently in his late 30s than 20s!
        B). OPS+ Age 33-39 — 166
        OPS+ For entire career: 155
        C). Career high in home runs at age 37
        Career high in slugging at age 37, followed by age 39.
        Yep, Hank Aaron’s sure looks suspicious, doesn’t he?

        3. The “typhoid mary of steroids” quote pertained to Jose Canseco, not Tony LaRussa.

        I point is, I can make a similar case about anybody. Pick and choose some stats, throw in some loose connections with another steroid user and…ta-da! I’ve baselessly accused someone of steroid use!

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:49 AM

        Here’s one:

        1. Wasn’t a power hitting until his late 20s, then suddenly ranked among league leaders annually.
        2. Lead league in OPS at the advanced age of 36, posting a whopping 172 OPS+
        3. Was posting a .900 OPS into his 40s
        4. After several down seasons, suddenly hit .330 with a .500 slugging percentage at age 41.
        5. Was an avid fitness advocate, heading the President’s Council on Physical Fitness
        6. Played with Bobby Del Greco who in turned played with the “typhoid mary of steroids” Tony LaRussa!

        What more proof do I need. Stan Musial used steroids!!!!

      • 18thstreet - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:07 PM

        I’m not willing to put in the effort that cohnjusack did, but check out Warren Spahn’s best hitting year, comparing the rest of his batting career numbers.

        At age 37!

  11. churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:11 AM

    Is there anything more chickenshit than saying “I know something you don’t know, but I won’t tell you about it. However, I’m going to bring it up from time to time to remind you that I know something you don’t know?”

  12. itauditbill - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:14 AM

    I’m pretty sure I remember one of the pitchers from the Braves of the mid-70’s noting that he took Horse Steroids. So do we really think that is was clean even back then. No it wasn’t. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t clean it now, it just means that we need to back off of the feelings of outrage. Athletes will try many things to get an edge, they are flawed individuals as well. It’s why we need stronger testing and penalties that have more bite. I really think the penalties for Track and Field would be appropriate along with the testing, if we’re serious about cleaning this up. But remember folks that means having testers follow you to your birthday party (see recent news about Lolo Jones) or perhaps to the emergency room where you can’t go because you have kidney stones. Even then people are still cheating. It’ll never be clean but in can be cleaner.

    • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:26 AM

      Here’s your guy

      SAN FRANCISCO — Former major league pitcher Tom House used steroids during his career and said performance-enhancing drugs were widespread in baseball in the 1960s and 1970s, the San Francisco Chronicle reported Tuesday.

      House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron’s 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves’ bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, and that he tried human growth hormone and “whatever steroid” he could find in order to keep up with the competition.

      “I pretty much popped everything cold turkey,” House said. “We were doing steroids they wouldn’t give to horses. That was the ’60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There’s a lot more research and understanding.”

  13. onbucky96 - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:15 AM

    Buster Olney is in denial. Only current players juiced…

  14. waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:16 AM

    “Hi, I played every single game from 1983-1998, which was the dawn and peak of the “steroid era”. I, however, never missed a game while other players who were busted for using PED’s most often used the excuse that it helped them recover from wear and tear the body gets playing this game every day for 8 months a year, faster. No, see, I was made of iron. I am white, by the way. Most of the people drawing the most ire from the media are not. I am in the Hall Of Fame. Have a nice day.”

    • nolanwiffle - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM

      It’s come to this? A player that was lauded for his work ethic and his desire to simply do what he was being paid handsomely to do…….must have been on some sort of PED?

      Also, nice introduction of race into the issue. Hadn’t considered that angle.

      • waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:34 AM

        Hey, you can have the greatest work ethic and desire to play possible…that’s not going to stop your body from not falling apart after getting spiked on a double play, a collision at the plate, getting hit by a pitch, twisting your ankle/body parts…that’s where PED’s come in.

        I noticed the race thing with how much worse Bonds + Sosa + Canseco got it compared to McGwire, who looked way more insanely huge than they did. Weren’t his biceps almost the same measurement as his waist or something absurd like that?

    • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:31 AM

      I am white, by the way. Most of the people drawing the most ire from the media are not.

      I know! Mark McGwire and Roger Clemens have gotten off scott fucking free, they have! No one ever talks about them at all!

      BTW, I enjoy how people will cite whatever statistic they damn well please to claim someone used steroids. I appreciate this one because, while a lot of people point to injuries as proof of steroid use, you point to lack of injuries as steroid use.

      Maybe, just maybe the Mitchell Report taught us that there is no profile of a steroid user and we should just stop trying to pin it on someone with just anecdotal evidence.

      • waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:36 AM

        I don’t really know if youre being sarcastic, but McGwire + Clemens didn’t get half the heat Bonds, Canseco, Sosa & A-Rod have.

        Players get injured when cycling OFF steroids, not while they are on them. See: McGwire’s last season or two.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:51 AM

        Sorry….they didn’t?

        First off, A-Rod is a bit separete, since his scandal is happening after testing has been implemented.
        Second, from where I sit, McGwire and Clemens have caught far more shit than Sammy Sosa. FAAAR more. Though Clemens has not caught as much as Bonds (largely due to Bonds holding the all-time home run record), he has caught an enormous amount of shit.

        There’s a lot of racism in the world….let’s stop searching for it and injecting it where it isn’t.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:52 AM

        Players get injured when cycling OFF steroids, not while they are on them. See: McGwire’s last season or two.

        Are you fucking kidding me? That is the most pulled-straight-from-ass justification for I’ve ever read in this comments section.

      • waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:57 AM

        Uh, what in the holy shitfire are you fucking talking about? THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS.

      • waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:00 PM

        Gotta love the “lets stop searching for racism” when its clear racism. Its the same bullshit that lauds shithouse players like David Eckstien for being “grinders” and then tells us that Justin Upton is lazy.

        These are all athletes, they ALL put in the work. When the horseshit racist media stops with all this fucking soft-racism, then there won’t be anthing to point to.

        If Ripken was black or latino, he ABSOLUTELY would have had to answer questions about PED use. But he’s white so he’s “made of iron”…right….

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:06 PM


        Wow dude….just…wow.

        There you have it folks. Steroids will prevent you from being injured, but cycling off steroids will cause you to be hurt. The lesson here is never cycle off steroids.

        Science, the waiverclaim way!

        BTW, the science behind injuries and steroids is that a rapid gain in muscle mass is not necessarily accompanied with a proportional increase in tendon and joint strength. What on earth it would do with cycling on and off is beyond me.

      • waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:09 PM


        Cycling on and off would promote exactly what you just said, you nincompoop.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:12 PM

        1. “Gotta love the “lets stop searching for racism” when its clear racism. Its the same bullshit that lauds shithouse players like David Eckstien for being “grinders” and then tells us that Justin Upton is lazy.”

        Which is not the steroid issue, is it? Your claim was that Barry Bonds and Sammy Sosa have gotten a disproportionate amount of shit from Mark McGwire and Roger Clemens. What I stated was that, in fact, McGwire and Clemens have caugth far MORE shit than Sosa and less than Bonds. The amount of shit seems to be far more related to your impact on the record books than your race. IE, Rodriguez is getting a lot more shit than Nelson Cruz. I didn’t say racism doesn’t exist, I said it didn’t pertain to your cited examples of McGwire and Clemens not catching shit for steroid use.

        “If Ripken was black or latino, he ABSOLUTELY would have had to answer questions about PED use. But he’s white so he’s “made of iron”…right….”

        Says who? You, just now? Almost no players from the 1980s have to answer for steroids. No Ripken, Schmidt and not Eddie Murray, Jim Rice or Tim Raines.

      • waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:16 PM

        @cohnjusack You’re so corny dude, log off. No one wants to hear what you have to say, and you arent making any real point here other than failing to prove an idea wrong.

        Also John Cusack is a massive douchebag, and terribly overrated actor too.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:18 PM

        Cycling on and off would promote exactly what you just said, you nincompoop.

        Here are two things that you show you’re are completely, utterly wrong.

        “If used properly and safely, steroids and hGH can be used with few side-effects for years. Cycling on and off properly and compensating your body nutritionally can make your muscles not only larger, but more efficient. Minor and major injuries will heal faster.”–


        Alternating periods of anabolic steroid use (on cycle) with periods of either no use or the use of low doses of anabolic steroids (off cycle)
        Cycling periods usually last from 6 to 16 weeks
        Anecdotal reasons for cycling
        Reduction of tolerance development
        Reduction of adverse effects
        Prevent detection of steroid use
        Insure peak performance during competition”–

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:32 PM

        and you arent making any real point here other than failing to prove an idea wrong.

        I just want to focus on this sentence, because I think it speaks to the larger issue here. Why are you get to make an accusation based on your own made up criteria, and it’s up to someone else to prove it wrong?

        Do you see the problem there?

        Example: I think Jack Black is actually an anthropomorphic marshmallow. Unless you prove me wrong, then that means it’s correct.

        See how this doesn’t work? When making an accusation, it’s usually typical of the accuser to provide evidence behind his accusation.

    • thinkfirstthenspeak - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:35 AM

      Does this mean that Gehrig was the pioneer of steroid use? He didn’t miss a game and led the league in home runs three times.

      Who else can I accuse without any proof?

      • waiverclaim - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:37 AM

        He wasn’t playing during the steroid era, and only played against white people, the game was MUCH easier then…

      • thinkfirstthenspeak - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:26 PM

        As evidenced by the dozens of other players who had consecutive games streaks that were in the thousands or the high majority (4) of the top 15 streaks that occurred before 1947?

  15. skeealaska - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM

    Check out Ryne Sandbergs’ numbers. It’s a possibility. Jus sayin’.

  16. aceshigh11 - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:39 AM

    Hickey Renderson?

  17. CyclePower - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:43 AM

    Would you just stop playing the moral equivalency card! Ok! You don’t like what MLB has done to A Rod. We get it! You’ve articulated it backwards and forwards non-stop for the last several weeks and endlessly from every conceivable relativist angle. And really, it is all smoke and mirror irrelevancy meant to distract from the issue that is pending RIGHT NOW. I really don’t care, and it really has no current bearing whether John McGraw or whoever the hell used novel ways to steal signs in 1915. People steal. People have always stolen. People will continue to steal. Well, we should therefore legalize stealing. It is tortured logic from someone who once upon a time had to study this stuff to take the LSAT. Stop it!!

    The part that is actually starting to gall me is that, ultimately, you’re deflecting, obfuscating, shading….not being truly honest. Why don’t you just stop with the posturing and just flat out come out and say what your non-stop posting suggests? “I, Craig Calceterra think the issue of PEDs in baseball is completely overblown and is a which hunt. Cheating is always been in baseball and always will be. If some players are determined to use drugs, MLB can’t stop it, and personally, I really don’t care if some do” That would save a whole lot of unnecessary polemical gymnastics.

    Either one wants aggressively root out PEDs in baseball and are willing to implement the steps to do it, or one is willing to accept a certain level of cheating because they consider the enforcement needed to achieve the first option as too draconian. That’s really what it all boils down to.

    • CyclePower - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:47 AM

      And by-the-way. Look at the end result of your argument in the comments section. You say you want due process? Look at all the names above that are now implicated in cheating based completely on a false rumor because you set the tone with your post, which was based entirely on rumor. Craig Biggio and Smoltz……you just fucked those guys.

    • sportsdrenched - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:38 PM

      I appreciate Craig taking the counter argument to the endless condemming of A-Rod. I agree, that I as a regular fan i shouldn’t be outraged at A-Rod. However, I’m not supporting the Moral Relativity Card that’s being played here. There are victims in this situation. Teams, competitors, teamates that PED Users who lost their jobs…etc. This isn’t a victimless crime. Players that have been caught cheating through due process need to man up and take their wooopin’.

  18. Marty McKee - Aug 6, 2013 at 11:55 AM

    Nobody ever hit 73 home runs on greenies.

    • raysfan1 - Aug 6, 2013 at 2:53 PM

      You’re sure Bonds didn’t use greenies as well as HGH and steroids? I’m not.

      • Kevin S. - Aug 6, 2013 at 3:17 PM

        I’m sure he did. Because, you know, he actually tested positive for them.

      • raysfan1 - Aug 6, 2013 at 3:53 PM

        Well, there you go. No surprise to me.

  19. Haruko Haruhara - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:21 PM

    Someone I’ve always been suspicious of is Carlton Fisk. He had a big explosion of power at the age of 37 when he hit 37 home runs, 11 more than his previous high. Then he hit 72 home runs after the age of 40. And he played into the early 90s, when PEDs were around; just no one knew it yet. Anyway, no proof, just suspicious numbers.

  20. bigdaddy44 - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:45 PM

    Athletes were using steroids long before the “steroids era” of baseball. Look at the Steelers dynasty era of the 70’s. So let’s reclassify some Hall of Famers. Nolan Ryan should be called a pioneer. Cal Ripken should be be his first mate. Roger Clemens is Ryan’s prize pupil who was too arrogant to cover his tracks, and will never make it to the Hall. Let’s stop treating Ryan and Ripken like they were some kind of demigods and call them for what they are, steroid users.

    • nolanwiffle - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:08 PM

      Why stop there? I would suggest that all players who played between 1923 and 2005 were steroid users…….except Pete Rose. He had his nose buried in the Daily Racing Form and never saw what was going on around him.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Aug 6, 2013 at 4:03 PM

        Rose lived with a convicted steroid dealer…

  21. mnwildfan15 - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:46 PM

    Now batting for the Minnesota Twins, number 34, KIRRRRRRRRRBY PUCKETT.

    • mattymarts17 - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:52 PM

      I was just logging in to suggest Kirby Puckett. We will never know unless someone gets a ton of money to write those infamous “tell all” books.

    • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:34 PM

      Puckett’s HR Totals
      ’86 31
      ’87 28
      ’88 24
      ’89 NINE
      ’90 12
      ’91 15
      ’92 19
      ’93 22
      ’94 20
      ’95 23

      If he was juicing he was doing it wrong

      • cohnjusack - Aug 6, 2013 at 4:43 PM

        You very, very conveniently left off the first part of Puckett’s career.

        1984: 0 Home runs in 583 PAs
        1985: 4 Home Runs in 744 PAs
        1986: 31 Home Runs in 723 PAs

        …which is also not proof that Puckett did anything. I just hate it when people very selectively do this stuff. After all, I could do the same thing here

        2001: 73 Home Runs
        2002: 46 Home Runs
        2003: 45 Home RUns
        2004: 45 Home Runs
        2005: 5 Home Runs
        2006: 26 Home Runs
        IT’s declining! He did steroids wrong!

      • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 5:26 PM

        Ya but Jose Canseco was a rookie in ’86, and this whole story is about a Canseco shake. Pretty sure Jose didn’t break into the majors serving up shakes to everyone. And if Puckett continued to juice, why didn’t hit 30 a year for the rest of the way?

      • imnotyourbuddyguy - Aug 6, 2013 at 5:26 PM

        Wipe your nose

  22. mccjr - Aug 6, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    It amazes me how many people MAKE UP STUFF in their heads.
    For those that want to blame and have no proof – go ahead – cast the first stone.
    And for those that are making stuff up… why do you care so VEHEMENTLY???
    These people are total strangers.
    They started playing the game as kids just like regular JOEs – like me.
    So why are they held to such a high standard today??? Because you say so?
    What a load of crap.
    Get back to work – no wonder the economy is in the tank.
    You guys make my head hurt just trying to read your posts.
    And, some of the ANGER in the posts is amazing and unbelievable.
    Go read a good news article – something positive.
    Make a difference in another’s life – that would be something to talk about.

    • CyclePower - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:04 PM

      Yeah, if the central argument of the Craig Minions is that this whole A Rod fiasco is a which hunt, am I alone in seeing the irony in now falsely accusing nearly every single player in the last thirty years? That, my friends, is an example of collective hysteria.

      • paperlions - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:54 PM

        That isn’t the argument at all….and the only way you could actually suggest that is to not have read anything that has been written.

        The points, generally, are:

        1000s of players have used.

        Players have been using PEDs for as long as they have extisted.

        Steroid use has been wide-spread in baseball since at least the 1960s.

        There are likely MANY former steroid users in the HOF and there are many dozens of other cheaters, liars, mysogynists, racists, and criminals.

        Singling out one player and demonizing him is hypocritical and unwarranted.

  23. randomdigits - Aug 6, 2013 at 1:45 PM

    Sorry I am late to the thread.

    The title is incorrect. There is most definitely a member of the HoF that used PEDs.

    Pud Galvin did in the 19th Century.

    He freely admitted to it at the time.

  24. genericcommenter - Aug 6, 2013 at 2:29 PM

    I agree with the premise, but I don’t think that comment is proof that illegal steroids were in the drink. I used to take these legal OTC GNC shakes back in the 90s- Stuff like MegaMan 2000 (or whatever it was called), Metrx, Myoplex, that stuff Joe Piscopo endorsed, etc. And I would joke with my friends about it being steroids. I think it DID cause acne, too. Murray Chass would love it.

    Also, before the whole illegal PED scandal, BALCO had legal supplements that were endorsed by Barry Bonds, like ZMA. At the time when it was known that BALCO and Bonds were into both legal sups and PEDs (which I would debate should have been legal at the time due to the dubious argument of banning something one does not know exists), I used to joke around that I was “taking my Barry Bonds pills” when I took zinc supplements.

    Plus, most baseball writers, Congressmen, and other elderly authoritarians probably consider any sort of modern GNC-type supplements and protein shakes to be “PEDs.”

    I’m reminded of an old Beverly Hillbillies episode when a bodybuilder said he got built through use of “the barbells” and everyone thought it was a disease. Modern bodybuilding and supplementation is relatively new and foreign to a lot of folks- though old enough that steroid use was known in the 1960s, for sure.

    • nolanwiffle - Aug 6, 2013 at 3:10 PM

      Get the F off my lawn you overinflated ne’er-do-well!

  25. makeham98 - Aug 6, 2013 at 5:08 PM

    “Nolan Ryan only used Advil”

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