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College baseball player murdered in Oklahoma by teens who were “bored”

Aug 21, 2013, 9:45 AM EDT

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This is simply appalling and heartbreaking.  Christopher Lane, a college baseball player from Australia, was murdered in cold blood in Oklahoma over the weekend. The most chilling part: he was apparently chosen at random by some teenagers who were simply bored:

Two teenagers were charged Tuesday with first-degree murder in the shooting death of a college baseball player out for a jog in Oklahoma — a crime that one teen said they carried out simply because they were bored, according to police … “They saw Christopher go by, and one of them said: ‘There’s our target,’” the chief, Danny Ford, told the AP. “The boy who has talked to us said, ‘We were bored and didn’t have anything to do, so we decided to kill somebody.’”

There is evil and meanness in this world. This is just so terribly awful and sad.

195 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. chill1184 - Aug 21, 2013 at 9:52 AM


    • okwhitefalcon - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:21 PM

      Where’s Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson on this?

      Arranging a march on the Oklahoma State Capital building in OKC?

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 4:34 PM

        Oh, aren’t you clever. Hey, you know they don’t live here — and they didn’t even march on OKC (or Tulsa) in the spring of 2012 when two men went around killing black people in Tulsa. So, I’m doubting they’re going to do anything about a situation where the culprits are actually being prosecuted for a crime. But, thanks for breaking out your whitie card, falcon.

      • okwhitefalcon - Aug 21, 2013 at 6:30 PM

        I’m beyond happy you found it clever – day made.

        And thank you for playing out your always predictable over reaction card.


      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 9:24 PM

        lol whitefalcon, way to miss the sarcasm.

      • okwhitefalcon - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:00 PM


        You were drawn into pointing it out yourself.

        You’ve officially reached the depths of saying “Get it, c’mon don’t you get it?!” to your own joke everyone stoically says “Ya, we got it…” to while sighing and rolling their eyes.

        Your lolli just got taken – again.

      • chill1184 - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:02 PM

        Feel free to give Pat Buchanan and Frosty Wooldrige a call then

  2. jdanknich - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:02 AM

    When I’m bored I take a nap or find something to watch on TV. What the heck was wrong with these kids? Truly, utterly disturbing.

  3. zzalapski - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:03 AM

    Boredom will be the least of their problems soon enough.

    • psukardi - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:14 AM

      Watch them be tried as “youths”, get out at 18 and have a bunch of street cred.

      • Kevin S. - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:21 AM

        Unlikely. They’re not that short of 18, and I don’t think first-degree murder is something that prosecutors usually look to go lenient on.

      • kirkmack - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:23 AM

        The article that I’ve read on this said that all 3 were going to be tried as adults.

      • kopy - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:25 AM

        They’re being tried as adults, although they’re too young for the death penalty.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:03 AM

        Personally, I never understood why the legal system considers committing a heinous crime proof that you’re mature enough to be considered an adult.

      • apmn - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:33 AM

        You are right, cohnjusack, committing a heinous crime as a teen is not proof of adulthood. They clearly are not adults. But the only way they can be imprisoned beyond 18 is if they are tried as an adult. The policy is intended to protect the vast majority of teens who commit lesser crimes by giving them a fresh start in adulthood. These kids probably don’t deserve to be released at 18 based on the inhumane nature of their crime, so hence they are called adults to pass through a loophole. It isn’t a perfect system, but circumstances such as these would throw a wrench into any legal system.

      • badintent - Aug 22, 2013 at 12:36 AM

        Deport them to Texas, fry them hot !!

  4. sdelmonte - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:07 AM

    I oppose the death penalty. But it would be really, really hard to shed a tear for these failed excuses for human beings were the courts to decide to deprive them of their lives.

    • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:31 AM

      You’re right. And yet, somehow, we can only hope that 20 years from now, these guys would actually have some sort of premonition about life and death, good and evil, and overall justice, that they could maybe contribute in their own way to their imprisoned community and own grieving family members.

      I speak of my mother’s murder often. My stepfather killed himself as part of the event. There has never been a moment where I thought “Well, at least he’s dead.” Conversely, I have no idea how I would feel now if he was still alive….

      I grieve for everyone involved.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:09 PM

        Koufax, I don’t know what happened, but I’m sorry it did. That has to be bad to live with. You’re right, I hope these guys could somehow rehabilitate and do something good in their lives, but I kind of doubt it. I have 3 friends who work in the prison system, and they tell me very few are sorry they did something, they are sorry they got caught. So hopefully that can happen, I just wouldn’t bet on it.

        Again, sorry for happened with your family/

      • indaburg - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:18 PM

        Thanks for sharing that, koufax. That you still have such an optimistic attitude towards people’s capacity for good after losing your mother so tragically really speaks well of you as a human.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:38 AM

      I am in no way defending what they did, but before you write them off as “failed excuses for human beings” I wish you would consider that they were boys — who often lack a true understanding of long term consequences — and they live in a town where the per capita income is less than $18,000 and they have no hope of really making anything of their lives there (more than a quarter of the families there live below the poverty line and the ones above it aren’t living large — there isn’t much industry there). While they lack access to a lot of the quality of life and educational benefits you probably enjoy, what they have access to is guns. Whenever you wanna get sanctimonious about life in the Frying Pan, I want you identify what you’ve done to come to the aid of the people here. I would suggest to you that it’s a little hard to expect kids to value human life when they have no experience of society valuing theirs.

      But, if it makes you feel better, our State kills a lot of people via the death penalty. It has not eliminated murders in the state nor made for a better life for the inhabitants. Statistically here, you are most likely to be assaulted, abused or killed by a family member than a stranger — which is probably why the rates of suicide and mental health problems are so high here. Don’t worry, they will most likely be put to death — I don’t know how that will make this whole situation better for you, though.

      • sdelmonte - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:59 AM

        Err, not to belabor my original point, but I really do oppose the death penalty, in part for most of the reasons you cite. And you do raise a lot of valid points. We – and by “we” I mean not just America but a huge swath of the nations on the planets – are failing our boys and young men at an alarming rate.

        But it really is hard to feel much sympathy for anyone who says they killed out of boredom. Maybe I should. Maybe I can even hold out hope that they will come to regret what they did. But sometimes, despite being a bleeding heart liberal about nearly everything, I hear about something and only feel disgust.

        Still, I am glad you are calling me out for my feelings. And doing so in a mature way. To find that on the Internet at all is rare. To find that on a baseball blog is amazing, and a reminder of why I love this place.

      • nolanwiffle - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:03 AM

        These “boys” could have gone to a deserted area of town and shot Coke bottles. They didn’t. Instead they chose to kill another human being in order to alleviate their boredom.

        There’s always been poverty and likely always will be. This wasn’t a robbery attempt. Don’t blame poverty for what these animals did. Hell, as best I know, even animals don’t kill for lack of something better to do.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:08 AM

        Hey thumb-downers: You know, empathizing and attempting to understand the motives and societal reasons that turn kids into murders isn’t the same thing as excusing the murders. Poverty is part of the larger societal reason. I don’t think it’s exactly fair to read that post, pick one factor that historiophiliac listed and then say “don’t blame poverty!”. Well, she didn’t. She was pointing to it as part of a complex list of reasons that cause a certain segments of the population to think killing someone out of boredom is okay.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:11 AM

        I would suggest to you that it’s a little hard to expect kids to value human life when they have no experience of society valuing theirs.

        They killed someone because they were bored. They didn’t go all Jean Valjean, they didn’t kill someone in self defense, and by all accounts they aren’t mentally retarded. They killed someone because they didn’t have anything to do. This has nothing to do with society, or society’s perceived lack of concern for these boys.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:18 AM

        See my response to nolan.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:18 AM

        delmonte, I’m not really asking you to have sympathy for them — maybe just dial back from calling them failures as human beings. My point is it’s a little troubling to point fingers like that at teen boys who haven’t had much of a chance to learn to be successes as human beings. I don’t have any problems with you saying what they did was wrong. Just remember that they also aren’t History’s Greatest Monsters in the grand scheme.

        nolan, if you have no idea how poverty makes you feel and how that impacts your whole thinking, I say that you are most fortunate — and perhaps you should have some consideration then. They are not “animals” — they are men, who did something very, very wrong.

      • bh192012 - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:33 AM

        historiophiliac, are you trolling us now? You’ve got to be kidding me? You’re basically saying boys will be boys. They effing murdered someone in cold blood because they were bored.

      • apmn - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:43 AM

        historiophiliac, nobody made this an Oklahoma issue until you did. I grew up in poor, small-town Texas, so I understand the compulsion to defend one’s own from suburban folk who wouldn’t know hard times if it bit them in the behind, but you kinda went all preemptive warfare on them.

        These teens aren’t eligible for the death penalty even if tried as adults, am I correct?

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:00 PM

        I wasn’t suggesting that it would be any different if they grew up in rural Mississippi or something instead. However, I will say that people in other places like to judge people who live in Mississippi or Alabama or Oklahoma while not giving a crap about them any other time — and then wonder what’s wrong with them.

        You are correct. The news has now clarified that they will get life instead of the death penalty if they get the max.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:45 AM

        While I certainly appreciate your attempt to discuss the matter in a calm and rational manner, I simply cannot agree with your premise.

        Socioeconomic factors – while important regarding crime and/or recidivism rates – are simply not relevant to this discussion. Assuming arguendo that taking the life of a rival or competitor in a conflict over resources can be rationalized – e.g.: is such an action over scarce resources morally wrong – your mode of analysis may apply. (Please note that I phrased the above specifically insofar as it relates to actions taken over the course of human history).

        Here no such factors are present. To simply take the life of a random stranger solely for the purpose of doing so, and further, to obtain some form of enjoyment or entertainment out of the mix implicates a different analysis. I put forth that the behavior exhibited here implicates sociopathy. Simple indifference to (what I assume is) acknowledged morally reprehensible behavior.

      • forsch31 - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:55 AM

        >>>”Whenever you wanna get sanctimonious about life in the Frying Pan, I want you identify what you’ve done to come to the aid of the people here. I would suggest to you that it’s a little hard to expect kids to value human life when they have no experience of society valuing theirs.”

        I’ve mentioned before I live in a neighborhood infested with gangs. They have no fear, because they feel they have no future, and the existance they live in each day is pretty dark and twisted. They don’t value others’ lives because they’re angry…they see others living better or in peace, and they hate them because they don’t have the same hope, nor the same chance at that hope. So, they live for the moment, and when the moment comes when they go down, they’ll take as many as they can with them. They hold life loosely. But they still understand the taking of a human life. They understand what that cost is, and how its a cost they’re willing to extract from others.

        That is a basic human trait. Life if life, valued or not.

        These…things…said they murdered a complete stranger because they were “bored.” Not out of anger, desperation, not out of pain or a desire to inflict it. They simply decided to take a life one day to have something to do. The same thing happened in the Connecticut WASP world I grew up in, where a couple of vapid well-to-do teens murdered a homeless person, just because they had nothing to do. Same reasons, stated almost exactly the same way.

        It is not a measure of situation. Before you get all sanctimonious yourself, I would suggest to you that you relearn the basics of humanity. Because nobody is a blank slate, just as no animal is born without a basic understanding of survival.

        I also suggest you learn what life is really like down here before getting on your soapbox. Because I live in it every day.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:07 PM

        I think everyone missed my point which was NOT that what they did was okay but that calling them failures as human beings was asking more of these kids than might be fair under the circumstances. I am NOT saying they have an excuse or that they wouldn’t know right or wrong here. My objection was specific to his wording/judgment.

      • nolanwiffle - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:18 PM

        historio- I don’t believe I need to have lived in poverty in order to know that what these animals did is wrong. Plenty of poverty-stricken folks do not callously commit murder.

        As I stated previously, this does not appear to be an attempt at armed robbery wherein the victim was also murdered.

        These animals killed because they were bored…..not poor.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:26 PM

        I didn’t say what they did was okay or not wrong. But, fyi, socioeconomics is a factor in violent crimes. Stop calling them animals. They are human beings and belittling their humanity does nothing to put a stop to these incidents.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:23 PM


        I think our points may have crossed paths when they missed.

        I am saying that sociopaths are failures as human beings.

        I am also saying that I believe the perpetrators of this crime are sociopaths.

        Therefore, I am, in fact, saying that these perpetrators are failures as human beings.

      • forsch31 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:28 PM

        >” but that calling them failures as human beings was asking more of these kids than might be fair under the circumstances.”

        That is exactly what my post is addressing. On point.

      • hasbeen5 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:30 PM

        I think calling them failures is a pretty good fit.

        I think “Hey, if you’re bored, go for a run, smoke a joint, jerk off to internet porn, but don’t shoot some guy that runs by the house” is not too much to ask. Even if they’re parents only make $18k a year.

        Regardless of financial situation, a 15 year old should fully understand that it isn’t ok to kill someone. I think it’s a mistake to turn this into a big societal issue that can be fixed by throwing money or tutoring at the ghetto. I also think I’d feel the same way if it were 3 white kids from the upper middle class. Sometimes people are just assholes.

      • indaburg - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:29 PM

        I understand completely where you are coming from, ‘philiac. But right now, I’m a little too angry to find rationalizations or explanations for killing a young man in cold blood due to boredom.

        Your explanations are also a bit patronizing. Being poor in a seemingly hopeless place is no excuse for this. There is basic knowledge of what is right and wrong. What is good. I’m a tree hugging pinko liberal but goddamn. Where is their humanity?

        I grew up poor in a hopeless place. My mom took welfare. I remember being bored as a kid. Get a baseball and play catch. That always cured me.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:40 PM

        Again, I am not excusing what they did.

      • indaburg - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:15 PM

        Yeah, I understand. Sometimes, it is too soon for deeper reasons.

      • raysfan1 - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:17 PM

        I, too live in OK, and have zero sympathy for the perpetrators of this crime. I do not support the death penalty for two reasons–it actually costs more than life imprisonment and because it is anathema to me to have any possibility of terminating the life of someone who in fact did not murder someone. If/when these two get found guilty, however. I will no problem feeling that they have forfeited their right to ever being free again.

      • jtorrey13 - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:26 PM

        I want to jump in and defend historiophiliac against all of the people lining up with an analogy that came to my mind.

        Would you describe 17-year-olds that commit suicide because, “I didn’t have anything to do on weekends. I was alone. I had no friends. I couldn’t figure out how to contribute in high school. I was worthless. So, I decided to kill myself,” as “failed excuse for human beings”?

        It might be that you would. It might be that not putting on your pants, cinching them tight, getting out there and trying as hard as you can every day is failure.

        However, mental illness and our response to pain comes in many different forms. We can lash out, we can lash in, we can swallow it up and pretend it never exists and put it in a black little ball in the center of our being and keep it at bay with drugs, drink and distractions.

        Killing someone is a repugnant way to express oneself. But, don’t we need to find out why and to try to solve the problems that lead to these “solutions” (or at least attempt to do so) rather than just saying, “This person is evil and cannot be understood by anyone,” as a way to absolve ourselves of rational thought? Are we saying that we can never get better as a society? That all the problems that exist are because of people that don’t fit in, that don’t toe the line, that don’t try and we as a society will never be able to include them, so we must put them away or kill them.

        It’s possible. It may even be probable. Damn though, that’s depressing and it leads down a dark path of trying to figure out what group of people will be the next to step out of line and preemptively stopping them from doing so.

      • asimonetti88 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:32 PM

        You are all trying to find a reason for something for which there is no explanation. Some evil simply cannot be explained. I know it is human nature to want to know why, but in this case, I don’t think we will ever be able to comprehend the why. We just know what happened, and we have to deal with it as such.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:39 PM

        That’s a cop-out, dude. Murder is common and understandable. Dismissing it as evil without even trying to understand it assures that you won’t. This is not a new phenomenon. And, dismissing the perpetrators as “animals” is a simplistic way to feel safe and superior.

      • asimonetti88 - Aug 21, 2013 at 6:41 PM

        “Murder is common and understandable”

        Personally, I don’t think murder is understandable. I could probably sit here for the rest of my life and try to understand the act and still be unsuccessful.

        You are correct that murder is (unfortunately) common. And it occurs across a lot of social and economic classes. There have been rich people, poor people, white people, black people, old people, young people, smart people and dumb people who have commited it.

        Could poverty have contributed? Perhaps. But you can’t really understand what drove these young people to this act, try as you may.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 9:25 PM

        You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. But, again, my point was dismissing them as animals doesn’t do anything for the situation.

      • asimonetti88 - Aug 22, 2013 at 10:45 AM

        I’m not sure where you got the idea that I dismissed them as animals.

        I’m simply saying, you can’t begin to understand what caused this. Whether it because they “are animals” or because they were poor, we can’t understand their reasons.

        At the end of the day, the only thing we do know about what caused the act is that it was evil. How they were able to become capable of that kind of evil, we don’t know and probably never will.

    • bh192012 - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:20 AM

      Well in my view, the death penalty isn’t just a way to punish an offender since once they’re dead, they can’t experience earthly punishment. The advantage of a death penalty is the guarantee that they will not commit some other ghastly crime to the public or other inmates and guards.

      I think it’s the kind of thing to use against violent criminals who have no empathy or normal moral compass. Morality isn’t something you can force on someone, kinda like religion. I wouldn’t use the death penalty against a person who killed someone in a crime of passion or with some other strong motivation. I think it’s exactly the right solution for someone who kills because they’re bored. That was their “motive,” wow.

      It’s like putting down a rabbid dog vs a dog that bites an intruder.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:12 PM

        They aren’t dogs.

  5. echech88 - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:11 AM

    Imagine the scumbag that will have to defend these mutants in court. Great way to make a living…

    • ezthinking - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:14 AM

      I’m glad someone does it, and glad it’s not me.

    • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:24 AM

      Yup. Public Defenders who believe in the sanctity of justice and make less than half the money that DAs and “professional” defense attorneys do while working longer hours because they are out there on their own (no assistants) are indeed Scumbags.

      While you sir, a Frigging Genius.

      • voteforno6 - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:35 AM

        Agreed. I’ve met some people that work in a federal public defender’s office, and they no illusions about their clients. They work hard at their jobs, though, because they believe that justice means that everyone gets a day in court, no matter how reprehensible.

      • yahmule - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:40 AM

        Not every PD’s office is staffed by dedicated selfless professionals like the ones you describe. The one is Clark County, NV, for example, had a terrible reputation until recently. In by 10:00, out by 2:00 and grab a long lunch was the unofficial motto. It wasn’t uncommon for defendants to meet the attorney assigned to their cases for the first time on the day of trial.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:25 AM


      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:10 AM

        Because, you see, it’s much easier to pretend that people who commit heinous crimes and monsters and in no way similar to the rest of us. Because, of course, they aren’t monsters and no one wants to believe that under certain societal circumstances we may all be capable of such atrocities.

      • hasbeen5 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:32 PM

        Under what social circumstance could you see yourself shooting someone for the hell of it? This is bleeding heart bullshit to the extreme.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM

        Dude, if you can’t see the difference between excusing what they did and simply asking people not to dehumanize them, then you have a critical thinking failure.

      • js20011041 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:36 PM


        To put this on “societal circumstances” is to do a disservice to all people of modest means. It’s admitting that you look at poor people and think to yourself “they might kill me” whereas you wouldn’t if you were looking at people more wealth and not think the same thing. This isn’t stealing from a grocery store to feed your family. No, not all people living under certain societal circumstances would murder a random stranger for entertainment. That’s something only a fucking idiot would say.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:40 PM

        I don’t understand why people think the only crime that results from poverty is stealing. That’s really ignorant. Read what I wrote again because I actually explained it.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:41 PM


        It is, in fact, ok to dehumanize a sociopath.

        Whether its Adam Lanza, Bernie Madoff, these three, or even Goebbels.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:43 PM

        Well, you can but it won’t help you to deal with crime in any productive way.

        Also, I appreciate your armchair diagnosis. How long have you been treating these young men and why couldn’t you stop them from doing this?

      • hasbeen5 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:46 PM

        These guys literally “dehumanized” a guy because they were bored.

        I’m 100% ok with them being figuratively dehumanized.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:01 PM


        You’ve taken to resorting to likening me to a shrink? Isn’t THAT a little dehumanizing? (joking).

        At any rate, I am qualified to render an opinion based upon text book definitions of a sociopath. Please note that I make the assumption, for the purposes of argument, that one who takes the life of another out of simple boredom knows such activity is reprehensible, but carries on regardless.

        And for what its worth, I’m more than qualified to render legal opinions, such as the availability of an insanity defense.

        So, to counter your statement, I ask you, how does bestowing positive traits (i.e.: humanity and all its attendant factors) upon a (what I’ve determined) group of sociopaths, in any way help deal with crime?

        And for the record, please note that I have not resorted to smarm, snark, name-calling, or any other hallmark of an infirm position. I have attempted to counter your points with reasoned arguments and declarative statements based upon my qualifications.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:06 PM

        Because we are then more likely to deal with the issues at the root instead of just being angry every time it happens. If you just write them off as “mutants,” you have no chance at trying to prevent it — or even see if it is preventable — in the future.

        PS, if having legal training is supposed to impress, it doesn’t.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:12 PM

        I did try not to impress. I responded to your points inquiring as to my qualifications. Further, I never once referenced the perpetrators as “mutants.”

        I guess we will have to simply acknowledge the fact that we are discussing two separate things.

        I, for one, believe that this is one of the few situations where relativism has no part in the discussion. Sometimes, just sometimes, there is a definitive truth to situations.

        Personal epistemology aside, I sincerely hope you have an enjoyable afternoon.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:16 PM

        I thought I was very clear that my concerns were with people reducing these young men to “mutants,” “animals,” and “failures as human beings.” I do not at all excuse what they did. I do, however, believe that addressing certain issues can help eliminate crimes like this. Have a nice day yourself.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:30 PM

        Hence the fact that we discuss two separate things:

        My point – behavior which I claim is sociopathic and unbecoming of humanity or of the basic duties of humanity – i.e. subsequent in time to said behavior

        What I believe to be your point – we can prevent this behavior via X methodology – i.e.: antecedent to said behavior without classifying said behavior (other than a declarative statement that the behavior was wrong)

        Didn’t try to pick a fight with you, just tried to have an engaging discussion about some of these things.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:47 PM

        Simply put js and itzep, you are making the argument that murders are born, not made. That seems terribly naive and overly simplistic to me. No one is saying it absolves their actions, but it’s pretty harmful to pretend that they are secretly demons or whatever such nonsense you’re going about.

        But know, you’re probably right. Murders are just born that way, and nothing else matters. Also, global warming is just the sun being angry, and rain is caused by God being angry at homosexuals.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:02 PM

        Are you mother effing kidding me?

        I made a very specific argument regarding the textbook definition of a sociopath and further that I do not believe that sociopaths are “failures as human beings.” Just like you made a specific statements regarding “under certain societal circumstances, we may all be capable of such atrocities.” I disagree with that insofar as regardless of those purported circumstances, I do not believe people kill others to relieve boredom.

        F*ck, I even pointed out above how I could understand (not condone, but understand), those who may commit the same act as a means of securing scarce resources (whether it be a street corner to sell merchandise, etc). I can even understand (not condone) things like violence as a response to perceived slight/insult/etc. These things I stated conclusively above are effected by the societal factors you have described.

        What we disagree upon is the point regarding the taking of another’s life as a means of entertainment or relief from boredom.

        If you want to put up strawmen, do it somewhere else. Disagree with my point, but give me the same dignity which you purport to give to the perpetrators, and do so without insult, strawmen, or feeble ad hominems. The ability to write something that appears sarcastic does not make you or your points any more or less valid.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:03 PM

        correction that “I do believe sociopaths are failures as human beings”

        /edit function

    • clemente2 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:24 PM

      The scumbags here appear to be the killers and you for this worthless comment.

  6. psukardi - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:14 AM

    I find it a bit concerning that the main stream media is being so silent in regards to this tragic event. More importantly the races of those involved. It’s more than likely if baseball player had defended himself you would hear the President proclaim if he had a son he would look like the one of those boys. Instead we get silence from the President, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Eric Holder, etc.


    • skeleteeth - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:17 AM

      Wow, fuck off.

    • chacochicken - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:19 AM

      Please, don’t compare unlike things.

      • heyblueyoustink - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:33 AM

        *Very* unlike things, in all aspects.

        This is admitted cold blooded killing.

      • chacochicken - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:43 AM

        The “national outcry” with Martin-Zimmerman didn’t start because he was an african-american. It started because of the stand your ground laws and their application when shooting an unarmed teenager. There is nothing in this case similar except that it is incredibly sad and events like this should be prevented.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:22 AM

      Every major news outlet has carried the story — including photos of the young men arrested. You should try reading those articles because then you might know the facts, like that the alleged shooters are being tried as adults and will face the death penalty.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:34 AM

        historio, I think his point is that even though it actually was reported (probably because it was an international baseball player), it’s not being the “national outcry” that other stories were made into.

        Georgia has just started jury selection for a 17 year old who shot a bay in the head in his stroller because they mother had no money to give the thief. There hasn’t been a national outcry over it either. Sad.

      • chacochicken - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:36 AM

        Perhaps you’ve heard of the “missing white girl” phenomenon?

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:39 AM

        Perhaps we’re all just becoming inured to this kind of thing out of the sheer monotony of it. I don’t think it’s really a racial thing anymore. It’s just a worn out sensation of deja vu.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:02 AM

        That’s odd.
        If not for the victim being a baseball player (and HBT having an article about it)…
        I wouldn’t know anything about the killing.

      • apmn - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:47 AM

        Are they facing the death penalty? I thought I read that they weren’t, must have got some faulty info. Hopefully the prosecutors will cool off a little before the trial starts.

    • heyblueyoustink - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:30 AM

      To their credit, the NBC website has covered this very well, even so far as offering responses from Australians.

      I’d like to know where they got the gun from, those teenagers.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:33 AM

        Probably at an NRA yard sale.

      • chacochicken - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:34 AM

        The chances of this event happening in Australia is practically negligible

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:35 AM

        Probably off the street. The NRA doesn’t sell guns, contrary to some with misinformed information or beliefs.

      • voteforno6 - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:36 AM

        That’s because Australia has much stricter gun laws than we do.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:41 AM

        No one thinks the NRA sells guns. What we think is that they contribute mightily to making it possible for kids like these to buy them.

      • blacksables - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:33 AM

        In what world have minors ever been allowed to legally buy guns? And while I’m not a supporter of the NRA, I seriously doubt they advocate the illegal selling of guns to minors.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:29 PM

        voterforno6, when Australia enacted their stricter gun laws, the crime rate went up. That happens every time stricter gun laws are in place. Seems like an easy trend to figure out when it happens every time, but the gun haters can’t figure that out.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:34 PM

        I suspect some of the difficulty in “figuring it out” comes from the firestorm of utter lies and bullshit promulgated by NRA and unrestricted “gun rights” supporters. It never fails to benefit the curious to do some fact-checking on the NRA’s truly blatant lies and misinformation. In fact the rate of violent crime in Australia fell sharply after the laws went into effect, especially after buyback programs hit their stride – and not only that, but the number of gun-related suicides fell even more dramatically. Here’s some reality for those of you who would rather not be suckered by this right-wing bullshit:

      • psukardi - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:46 PM

        Not from their fathers, assuming they have fathers.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:54 PM

        Again, if you actually read the news coverage you might have seen quotes from their parents and know whether or not their fathers are present — instead of making assumptions because they are black teens.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:15 PM

        OLd Gator, frankly, I prefer FBI crime statistics and something other than the Washington Post to get my facts. Just keep believing what you believe, I know you could never be convinced otherwise.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:04 PM

        Skids – a good name for the way your mind apparently works – if you want to prefer FBI statistics for Australia, which I doubt they actually promulgate themselves but receive from the same Australian government and independent university sources that the Washington Post did, suit yourself. The charts and numbers cited in the article, which is, unlike the usual run of lunatic NRA ravings, pretty even-handed, are from Australian government sources themselves. I haven’t noticed Australia becoming an authoritarian state in the roughly thirty years since the automatic weapons bans and buybacks went into effect, either – unless, of course, you maybe have “FBI Statistics” that show that it did. But I guess there’s no point arguing with another NRA zombie who doesn’t want to be distracted by the facts.

      • jwbiii - Aug 21, 2013 at 9:05 PM

        skids, the paper by Leigh and McNeill, which Howard cited in the Post article, used data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. Is that official enough for you?

      • jwbiii - Aug 21, 2013 at 9:11 PM

        Probably at an NRA yard sale.

        Probably more like this.

      • skids003 - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:38 AM

        Actually, I don’t believe the Australian government would put out the truth either, about like our government. Their stats are spun like ours do to make them look good. So no, I don’t believe it for a minute.

    • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:12 AM

      Sweet fucking Christ.

      1. It has been all over the news.
      2. Had George Zimmerman been arrested immediately and prosecuted, it would not have been all over the news. It’s that he killed a kid and the cops shrugged their shoulders.
      3. These kids were arrested, and will be prosecuted…so, you know…the legal system is working.

      How do people fail to understand this yet make that comparison every time someone is murdered?

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:50 AM

        Sweet Christ indeed. Sweet and delicious Christ.

        If only the Church would agree with me that a little nougat between two portions of the Body of Christ is the preferable method of taking part in the Sacrament of Communion, perhaps Church attendance would be up. Pity.

    • American of African Descent - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:42 AM

      First of all, psukardi, you’re an idiot for immediately bringing race into this or comparing this case to the Zimmerman case. The boys were immediately arrested and will face prosecution.

      Second, while I’m generally anti-death penalty, this is one of those cases where we take the boys out back, shoot them in the head, and bill their families for the bullet. You don’t try to reason why a rabid dog did what it did — you just put it down.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:28 PM

        Wow, that’s some opposition to the death penalty you got there.

      • American of African Descent - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:15 PM

        Hey, Gator, I don’t do anything half way.

    • peymax1693 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:56 PM

      There is absolutely no reason to bring race into the discussion. As of yet, there was no evidence that Christopher Lane’s race played a factor in the decision of the defendants to murder him. You are probably one of those moronic white men who think that being born a white man in the United States is the worst thing that could have happened to you. As skeleteeth said, Fuck Off .

    • clemente2 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:29 PM


  7. rickdobrydney - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:14 AM

    Another day in America, another senseless shooting . What a violent, disgusting society we live in that would produce 3 punks killing out of boredom. Totally revolting, and it makes me more raging mad than sad.

    • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:37 AM

      This is not unique. If you really want to feel your skin crawl, you need to read up on Leopold and Loeb again. Two rich white kids, one a legitimate genius by the stats, who essentially did the same thing because they were bored but the rationalization they built around it has these three little psycopaths beaten flat for the sheer horror of it.

      • yahmule - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:48 AM

        You believe the perfect crime excuse was a lie? To me, they were simply two more egotistical assholes who badly misinterpreted Nietzsche.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:39 PM

        No, I didn’t say that at all. What I said was that they built up a rationalization for what they did to make it – in their own minds – “intellectually respectable,” and that the bottom line for both the kid they murdered and the young Australian those punks murdered is the same. There’s really no meaningful difference between “street cred” and intellectual justifications for cold-blooded murder. They’re just different types of window dressing.

    • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:18 AM

      Yet, and this is important to remember: You are much less likely to be murdered today than you were in 2001, 1991, 1981, 1971. You are less likely to be rapped, robbed, assaulted. In fact, you are less likely to be a victim of crime today than any time in the past 50 years(at least), and nearly half as likely as 20 years ago.

      This doesn’t make this any less awful, but it does make it seem as if the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Though it’s hard to see sometimes, it’s actually becoming safer.

      • forsch31 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:24 PM

        cohnjusack–Also important to remember: Those rates are measured against the population of the United States. So while the rates are down, the overall numbers are up since the 1970s. The number of violent crimes (murder, rape, assault, etc.) first broke the one million mark in 1975 (1.039 million), when the population was about 213 million. In 2011, the total number of violent crime incidents was 1.203 million, with the population at about 312 million (the number of violent crimes spiked in the early 1990s, with three years of nearly 2 million incidents each year. That number has decreased steadily since, probably due to a number of factors, including the rise of social media and survellance in everyday lives, more investment in law enforcement, etc.).

        Rates are a nice tool to illustrate trends, but it’s always good to mention the actual numbers.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:50 PM

        Umm…yeah, of course. Why wouldn’t you look at it via rates though? That’s like saying East St. Louis is safer than New York because East St. Louis has fewer murders. True, but you the individual are far less likely to be murdered and far less likely to have committed murder. Rates are absolutely more appropriate here.

    • blacksables - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:40 AM

      @rickdobrydney, you’re right. It’s disgusting that we allow people to live in this country who dare think, live, experience life, and even act, differently than you do. Let’s put them all in the gulags. They’re way too empty. Of course, you’re going to be mighty lonely.

      A free society means we have to live with the kind of people who do these things, even though we are disgusted by it. Living in your world means we’ll all be much safer, but how would we know?

      Sadly, I rather take my chances in their world than yours.

      • australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:50 AM

        in what other 1st world country does this ever happen??? nowhere but the good ol USA, i’d put you all in jail to make the world safe… the first ammendment is abused over and over again… learn to sort your gun control out retards.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:34 PM

        it happens everywhere, aussie. It just makes the front page here every time it happens. Our country has a 2nd amendment, thank goodness, so we have the right to defend ourselves. I guess you don’t any more. Since we live in a somewhat free society, all of our Constitutional rights are necessary, not just some.

      • australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:11 PM

        we don’t need to defend ourselves against pointless killings, because we have proper gun laws here, we respect our people, your constitution needs some work..

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:18 PM

        Maybe the problem here is “a lack of respect,” which is one thing I agree with you on. Because of this lack of respect, we have too many nuts running around. If they didn’t have a gun, they’d kill with something else. For that reason, if none other, I want to be able to defend myself and my family. Don’t disarm your law abiding citizens.

        PS I think our Constitution is just fine, we just seem to not follow these days when inconvenient.

  8. billymc75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:30 AM

    where’s cnn, wherez the naacp, wheres the lawyers.

    • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:19 AM

      Here’s CNN:

      Lawyers are prosecuting the kids, so that’s taken care of.

      NAACP usually focuses on civil rights for African Americans so I’m not really such what their purpose would here.

      Hope this clears everything up for you.

      • blacksables - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:43 AM

        “NAACP usually focuses on civil rights for African Americans”

        As long as they’re not clowns. No clowns. Nope. Clowns not allowed.

    • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:04 PM

      Relative locations from which the groups you list are headquartered.

      CNN: Atlanta.

      NAACP: Baltimore

      Lawyers: Hell

  9. thebadguyswon - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:31 AM

    The MSM will not touch this more than they have to. What is needed is not gun control, is a black leader to step up and address the real issues like the disintegration of black families. I won’t hold my breath. Too easy to blame THE MAN and the NRA.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:42 AM

      Are you freaking stupid? Do you know how many murderers in Oklahoma are white? Are you going to freak out about the disintegration of white culture because of that?

      • chacochicken - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:46 AM

        I feel like Ryan Zimmerman and Jordan Zimmermann should sit George down and have a talk with him about gun violence.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:06 AM

        I think he’s speaking in terms of a much a broader scope Philiac.
        Not the specific race of murderers in Oklahoma. It’s a huge problem nationally.
        With the issue right here in Indy being one of the worst in the nation.
        It’s bad. Real bad. You should see the numbers. The increase is staggering.

      • thebadguyswon - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:26 AM

        Why are black men 7 times more likely to commit a gun crime than white men or Hispanic men? Please answer that. Why is that?

        (and that’s a fact….so the race card has to be put back in your pocket)

      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:48 AM

        Why are black men 7 times more likely to commit a gun crime than white men or Hispanic men? Please answer that. Why is that?

        Dear God, you realize this would take a roughly 20 page research paper to explain, right? To summarize:
        1. You are likely to end up in the social class you were born into regardless of race.
        2. Hundreds of years of legal discrimination forced African-Americans into a lower class
        3. We are actually seeing the homicide rate drop. It is half of what is was 20 years ago.
        4. Poverty, pollution(yes, read about the strong correlation between lead concentrations and homicide rates), education are all drivers of homicide, drug trade and street crime
        5. More African-Americans, per reason 1 tend to live in these circumstances.
        6. A Ohio State study showed that poor urban whites commit homicide at a similar rate to poor, urban blacks. Give white people the same circumstances, they are just as likely to kill you.

        It is a complex issue, there is not a simple answer. I don’t expect my post answered it for you, but it should give you a place to start.

      • bh192012 - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:46 PM

        Because clearly the NRA pushes assault weapons on black youth. That’s why when you go to NRA meetings, it’s all black teenagers.

    • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 10:44 AM

      The NRA makes it very easy to blame them with their paranoid opposition to even the most reasonable efforts at gun regulation and their neanderthal conviction that you can fight violence with more violence. And there are plenty of Black organizations and leaders working very hard to call attention to, and offer therapy, counseling and social policies meant to alleviate the crisis in African-American domestic and economic life. You’re just not paying attention. You’re also underestimating the magnitude of the problem.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:37 PM

        Gator, I think that the NRA can see that if they give an inch, then the antigunners come back wanting a foot, and so on and on. That’s why the take the position they take. If someone breaks into your house, how do you fight back. With less violence? I just don’t see that part of the argument.

    • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:23 AM

      Many, many black leads have discussed the disintegration of families. Fucking Barack Obama has addressed it for fuck’s sake. Also, it’s a stupid strawman anyway, because far more children grow up in single-parent households today and the murder rate is half of what is was 20 years ago. So, let’s stop blaming single moms, shall we?

      • thebadguyswon - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:31 AM

        Pal…..I’m not blaming MOMs at all. In fact, if I’m blaming anyone, its the fathers! 70 percent of black kids are born out of wedlock, compared to 42 percent nationwide.

        Its the fathers and their lack of involvement, not the mothers.

        I laugh at your strawman, by the way. Keep your head in the sand.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:36 AM

        So BadGuys, allow me to follow your logic.

        1. There are far fewer murders in violent crimes in America today
        2. There are far more children growing up in single parent households.
        3. Murders are caused by children growing up in single parent households.

        …see how those things don’t exactly match? I loathe when people use this phrase incorrectly, but it applies here. Correlation does not equal causation. There are a large number of societal factors including (but not limited to) poverty, education, perpetual unemployment, drugs, etc that lead single parent households and homicide. Single parent households do not cause homicide. Trust me, having no dad is far better than having a shitty one.

      • thebadguyswon - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:45 AM

        Nope. But twist my words for your own amusement.

        What I am saying is this: The black community in this country has a problem. Far too many children are being fathered out of wedlock. (Roughly 70 percent vs the national average of 40). That’s problem one. It certainly does not mean these kids grow up to be criminals.

        That said – black men are 8 times more likely to be involved in gun crimes (usually perpetrated against other black men) than white or Hispanic men.

        So somehow – and I’m not a sociologist – there’s some problems that black leaders need to address. My two cent theory is the decay of the traditional black family structure is contributing.

      • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:55 AM

        Far too many children are being fathered out of wedlock.

        We agree, which is why I support real sex education, easy access birth control and easy access to abortions. If this is what you are saying, I wholly agree. Unwanted children are probably more likely to do bad shit regardless of race. If you’re telling me that crime would be solved with more shotgun weddings, than you sir are an idiot.

        So somehow – and I’m not a sociologist – there’s some problems that black leaders need to address.

        As I said before, black leaders have addressed it. Time and time and time again.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:15 PM

        Again, some people have their head in the sand about socioeconomic factors and how they relate to stable families. But, yeah, it’s easier to believe that poor people are just morally bad and that’s why they have so many family issues — it absolutely can’t be that they lack resources to help them succeed and maintain stable households.

    • clemente2 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:35 PM

      Talking about the disintergration of black families in poor circumstances without discussing the socio-economic history and present contribution to the disintegration is like talking about an Alka-Seltzer dissolving and not mentioning water.

  10. barrywhererufrom - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:03 AM

    Very sad story..i will be waiting for rev al and jessie jackson and president obama to.speak.about this heinous murder. I know I will be waiting a very long time for all three to have protest marches about this horrific.killing..

    • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:10 AM

      I like how you trivialize this event with cheap political shot at black national players, BarryBondsIsFromRiverside.

      Why do you do that, BarryBondsIsFromRiverside? Let’s get a nice sociological understanding of your wanton phenomenon.

      • barrywhererufrom - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:45 PM

        Cheap political shot? No.fool its a sad.state of affaird when a president weighs in on a case he knew nothing about..could these murderers be his son? Where they racially motivated? We have no idea but that didnt stop.jackson or sharpton to open their mouths anx make a situatiom worse. I am.still.waiting for them to make comments about this case or.any other murder that has a white.person as a wont happen because they all are race hustlers.and if you dont see the hypocrisy you are a fool..

      • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 8:26 PM

        Cheap political shot? You still run around with a handle indicating our Black President was born…. where? Uranus? California?

        No. Africa.

        Fuck you, Barry. Sideways and with a chainsaw, you pathetic, hate mongering hack.

    • cohnjusack - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:31 AM

      Tell you what Barry, the day their defense is that that white guy was walking through their neighborhood and that those kids were just doing their job to protect it, I will happily share in the outrage with you. But since their murder is being treated like…you know…a murder and not a heroic act, I think I’ll just let the legal system do it’s business.

      • clemente2 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:37 PM


    • APBA Guy - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:48 AM

      Most of the thumbs uppers probably don’t know our pal Barry from previous posts, and are unaware of what a racist neo-nazi, proto klansman he is. Disgusting piece of brainless sh*t.

      • clemente2 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:37 PM


      • barrywhererufrom - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:57 PM

        Apba douche call me.a.racist? You know shit about have .no idea where I work who I am married too and who my friends are..i challenge you to come up.with one racist.comment I have made.ever on any post..what because I dont like.obamas.policies and jessie jackson for their hypocrisy as racial.dividers not.healers.lile.mlk that play with your blow.up.dolll

  11. yahmule - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:11 AM

    I get the sense that many people asking “why doesn’t Obama speak out” are actually rather pleased by this turn of events. Some guy (non-American) they never met and don’t a damn about gave his life to fuel their phony outrage for another news cycle. Lane really took one for their team.

  12. tigersfandan - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:18 AM

    Normal people don’t randomly decide to kill someone. It sounds like these guys had become desensitized to the value of human life.

  13. eagles512 - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:19 AM

    It’s ridiculous that the media ignores that it was 3 black kids that killed a white guy yet harp on the fact that a Hispanic killed a black kid in a fight. What a joke

    • tylermoltisanti - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:38 AM

      Don’t forget he was a “white” hispanic.

    • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:44 AM

      Actually, it’s 2 black guys and 1 white guy charged with this crime.

      But I can see how you really care that it’s about 3 black guys killing 1 white guy.

      Thanks for that.

      • tylermoltisanti - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:47 AM

        No, it was 3 black guys charged.

      • thebadguyswon - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:49 AM

        The shooter was black.

      • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 8:28 PM

        I love how 6 idiots are like, Yeah, It Was 3 Black Guys.

        Read the news… if you can read…

        Racism isn’t dead in America because too many stupid assholes live here.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:20 PM

      Should I go back and look for your outrage about the two guys (white & American Indian) who killed three black people and shot two others so they could get back at “black people” on Good Friday 2012 in Tulsa — or will I be wasting my time?

  14. australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:47 AM

    Right to bear arms… working well america… you retards.

    this would never have happened here in australia, kids just don’t have such easy access to guns because of our amazing gun laws, maybe you guys (USA) should take note.

    it just seems like another excuse everytime kids kill kids, we should have right to defend ourselves/bear arms.. good work!

    another life wasted, whats that about 10,000 this year in the USA…. really sort your gun laws out, and maybe protect innocent people instead of assuming everyone is out to get you.

    No one here in australia can understand, why you don’t sort this out gun stuff out, it only took us one huge tragedy, not 50.

    • tylermoltisanti - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:48 AM

      outlaw sharks.

    • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:03 PM


      While many, if not all, are certainly saddened and outraged at the turn of events which have lead to this tragedy, as discussed above, the rates of crime are falling in this country and have been for decades.

      Additionally, in case you haven’t noticed, this country can’t sort anything out, nevertheless issues related to statements set forth in the country’s foundational documents. We are a country where the leaders fight amongst themselves for months when the discussion is had regarding payment of the tab (i.e.: raising the national debt threshold).

      That said, resorting to an ad hominem attack on the entire population as a result of a senseless crime is simply no way to point out a more (according to your premise) “enlightened” position.

      • australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:22 PM

        OUTRAGE solves nothing!! changing the laws on gun control does, i mean who do think is going to invade your shithole??

        and it isn’t a race thing it, just alot of americans have problems with firearms, i mean how many kids in schools have to get killed before something changes, i mean i i don’t hear about someone going crazy shooting everyone at school in many other countries, sure maybe once, then they decide to change the laws to protect children, yeah lets protect them with more people with guns at school…. as you can see GUNS are the fucking problem take them out of idiots hands and they might find other means, but it is so much harder for them to stab someone to death then shoot them, with a gun your grandma has in a closet.
        how many accidental shootings of kids happen a year over in the good ol USA, guess how many we have… even if we have a 10th of your population.. divide it by 10… not even close. RESPECTING THE PEOPLE.

        if you can make me understand why you haven’t banned automatic weapons of all kinds, all they do is kill things, then maybe i might side with you… but i doubt it.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:00 PM

        Without discussing your mildly coherent points, I’m going to present you with an anecdote:

        A few years ago I was party to a discussion with Australian High Court Justice Kirby. Justice Kirby continued making the claim that the President was nothing more than a king. Considering the history and formation of these United States, I found such a point repugnant. I understood the point, but personally disagreed.

        I guess what I’m trying to say is, certain things are imbued within constructs. There are so imbued due to myriad factors. It is very easy to point to things from afar and give so-called “simple” solutions, and do so rife with condescension. However, in so doing, you do a disservice to those attempting to listen.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:22 PM

        Automatic weapons are already restricted to the point the average citizen cannot have them. The price is out of sight, plus the paperwork is unbelievable. There’s a start.

    • tigersfandan - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:06 PM

      Find some other than retards, please.

      • tigersfandan - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:06 PM

        Er, some word, that is.

    • tylermoltisanti - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:12 PM

      What was Jill Meagher’s cause of death? Oh that’s right: murder. That’s what Australia classified it as, they don’t want a shooting classified as such, that might not look good. Lets classify it as murder. What a joke.

      • australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:26 PM

        guess what it wasn’t, 3 kids having a fun day deciding to shoot someone, that never happens here, jill meagher was raped by a pervert who was caught in 1 week, and he deserved it, how many rape/murders do you guys have.. i’d say about 50 times our rate.. but hey you are soooo smart.

    • unclemosesgreen - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:21 PM

      50 tragedies? Do your math, that’s just a sleepy summer here in the good ol U.S. of A.

    • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:23 PM

      As an American who supports gun control, I am sorry you have to see this.

    • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:01 PM

      You may not access to guns, but your crime rate went through the roof when you “outlawed” them. So it’s not that reason here. It’s culture and sociopathics in society doing these things.

      I want the right to defend myself if attacked. Maybe Australians don’t anymore.

      • australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:34 PM

        it i because we don’t get attacked with guns moron, cos we have gun control, sure there are murders, there always will be a portion of scum in each society, it just seems to the rest of the world kids get killed for no reason very often and america is too scared by charlton heston to do anything about it, wake up people, defend your selves from what? yeah other idiots with the right to bear arms… cos there is some invasion coming… maybe if the USA had any sort of control over the violence it wouldn’t happen as offen.

        anyway i am guessing 20 kids will be killed at some school in the USA before the end of the year (it happens so often), enjoy that positive talk on gun control again.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:26 PM

        Besides throwing the word idiot around a lot, and for the fact Charlton Heston has been gone for quite awhile, you are way off base.

        You can disarm the criminals, we have laws for that, but why disarm your law abiding population? I don’t have o defend myself from law abiding people, just the criminals who are going to have their guns.

        Since you resort to name calling because I disagree with you completely shows my point; you don’t know what you are talking about.

        RIP Charlton Heston

      • clemente2 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:43 PM

        skids–you keep repeating this–I do not think it is true. Gun violence in Australia is way down.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:00 PM

        clemente2, violence is up. Maybe not “gun” violence, but crime/violence in general. All violence. Obviously crime goes up when the gun control laws are stricter. Maybe not “gun” violence, but overall violence. How hard is that to comprehend. The looser the law, the less violence. Can you figure out why? There is a direct coorelation there in the stats.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:11 PM

        From what part of your ass do you keep pulling this “crime rate went through the roof,” Skids? I gave you a link to the Australian government figures. Violent crime in Australia -as well the suicide rate – dropped precipitously after controls and buyouts were put into effect. You’re just mindlessly parroting your masters at the NRA. Go worship your golden calf in a more primitive and credulous setting.

      • skids003 - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:42 AM

        and OLSDGATOR keeps parroting his liberal antigun masters. Believe what you want, you won’t change, and neither will I. Why don’t you post a sign in your front yard that says “Gun Free Zone?”

  15. churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Aug 21, 2013 at 11:48 AM

    Here’s where I saw it first:

    Here’s how the rest of the media is ignoring it:

    Now fuck off

    • australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:39 PM

      pretty much says 3 idiot americans shot an australian man for no reason at all… makes you guys sounds heaps smart, how about taking guns out of kids hands, crazy idea for the USA i know… but maybe it could help save some damn innocent lives

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:38 PM

        Proof read your posts so your ignorance isn’t so glaring.
        Don’t cherry pick topics. Try discussing a topic that is more challenging for you.
        Cherry picking is easy. Doing less cherry picking will not make you look so ignorant.
        Quit posting while drunk.
        You are the 1st Australian I have ever encountered who is a complete Penishead.
        Oh…and I take back the apology Sandy made to you earlier as you are embarrassment to your fellow Countrymen.

  16. sandrafluke2012 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:26 PM

    If George Bush had a son

    • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:29 PM

      It’d be a lampshade.

      Why do you dress up like a lady?

  17. sandrafluke2012 - Aug 21, 2013 at 12:59 PM

    I bet you would be shocked to find out that Bush probably has a higher IQ and received higher scores than Obama

    • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:15 PM

      I bet you’d be shocked that George W was a washout alcoholic and a failed oil man who went on to use his Daddy’s credentials to become the governor of Texas… the WEAKEST governorship in America, btw (because, see, it’s the Lt Gov who controls debate and procedure)… only to later have the SUPREME COURT decide to STOP THE COUNTING OF BALLOTS IN FLORIDA a week after GOP AIDS STORMED THE STATE CAPITAL BUILDING IN TALLAHASSEE.

      So let’s bet, Sandy Fluke. $10 that you’re a dude who listens to Rush Limbaugh naked. Pay up.

      • skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:28 PM

        calm down, Koufax. I’ve seen the same type of stuff thrown at the present guy about his qualifications. I don’t even want to go into it.

      • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 4:16 PM

        Sometimes, I just got to be me.

      • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:15 PM

        Sandy, Bush was a total academic mediocrity whose primary accomplishments at a Yale he didn’t have the grades to get into except for his smarter Daddy’s pull were his beer parties. Obama also went through law school, something your favorite submoron was too pickled to think about by the time he crawled out of Yale with a C+ that was already mostly a gift. Before you start making “bets” based on information you haven’t bothered to check…check your information. Like Skids with his apocryphal “Australian crime statistics,” you’re pulling prefabricated sound bites out of your ass.

  18. skids003 - Aug 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM

    Is that why he won’t release his transcripts?

    • Old Gator - Aug 21, 2013 at 5:26 PM

      Obama’s college records are not “sealed.” It would be illegal under federal law (the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974) for Occidental, Columbia or Harvard Law School to give any former student’s records to reporters or members of the public without that person’s specific, written permission. Obama hasn’t released them, but neither have other presidential candidates released their college records. George W. Bush’s grades at Yale eventually became public, but only because somebody leaked them to the New Yorker magazine. Bush himself refused to release them, according to a 1999 profile in the Washington Post. And I don’t blame Bush either. I may not legally discuss my former students’ academic performance and believe this is both professional and proper. It’s not a line I would like to see crossed for the protection of all students, my own, others’, and all students to come. It’s a bastion of privacy and one of the few left. I don’t need to see Bush’s grades to know that he was an idiot, and if graduation with honors from Harvard Law wasn’t enough to convince you which of the two was by far the brighter, well, you’ll just have to work on whatever powers of interpretation you have on your own. Good luck.

      But why let that stop you? You pulled your Australian crime stats out of your ass. Why not just make up a bunch of failing grades for Obama, and be sure to come up with a crackpot conspiracy theory about how they got him into Harvard Law School, from which we do know that he graduated with high honors.

    • skids003 - Aug 22, 2013 at 9:45 AM

      College professor. Imagine that.

  19. jwbiii - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:15 PM

    A day in U.S. gun deaths: 8/13/2013

    John Doe, Shelton, WA
    Michael Hodges, New Orleans, age 50
    Valentine Santos, Hartford, age 22
    Troy Gray, Fairlee, VT, age 45
    Rhonda Gray, Fairlee, VT, age 43
    Dave Harrison, Harvey, LA, age 19
    Nikiayn Westerfield, Harvey, LA, age 19
    Steven Brill, Manheim, PA, age 46
    John Doe, Houston
    Barbara Mayes, Houston, age 60
    Terry Mayes, Houston, age 67
    Jay Warbington, St. Joseph, LA
    Fuaed Ahmed, St. Joseph, LA, age 20
    Ledean McDaniel, St. Joseph, LA
    Medford Holmes, Wilmington, DE, age 33
    Oscar Aravjo, Bronx, age 20
    Mychael Smith, Pineville, KY, age 21
    Michael Smith, Pineville, KY, age 50
    Curtis Smith, Pineville, KY, age 51
    Shawn Pooler, Baltimore, age 22
    Allen Harvey, Baltimore, age 18
    John Doe, Denver
    John Doe, DeKalb Co, GA
    Sherrod Vaughn, Jackson, MS, age 22
    Victoria Glover, Parkville, MD, age 28
    Abdifatah Mahumod, Burnsville, MN, age 23
    Archie Smith, Phenix City, GA, age 58
    Eric Chism, Chicago, age 34
    Juan Aguez, Chicago, age 28
    Kelly Coca, Chicago, age 28
    Karla Eguez, Chicago, age 5
    John Doe, Milwaukee, age 27

    I chose a date a week ago because often authorities know who the deceased is but have not been able to notify the next of kin, so there are many John/Jane Does. Also because many critically injured victims do die after a few days.

    Is this ok with you?

    • australianrangersfan - Aug 21, 2013 at 2:36 PM

      yeah america rules…

      • koufaxmitzvah - Aug 21, 2013 at 3:16 PM

        Fuck Yeah!

  20. 13arod - Aug 21, 2013 at 4:08 PM

    Just get grand thief auto i u ant to kill someebody dont do it in real lige

  21. stlouis1baseball - Aug 21, 2013 at 4:57 PM

    13…sometimes your naivete is a welcomed relief (at least to me). Lol!
    “Grand theft auto.” Awe…

  22. eagles512 - Aug 22, 2013 at 12:36 PM

    I do apologize I said it was 3 black kids. I read it wrong. But one of the 2 black kids had written that he hates 90% of white people so this has to be looked into as a race crime.

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