Aug 27, 2013, 9:45 AM EDT
So I’m reading the latest Jon Heyman column and I’m finding myself agreeing with him more than I am with people coming at the issue he’s discussing from a sabermetric point of view. And I wasn’t even hit on the head this morning or anything.
The topic: the Kill The Win campaign Brian Kenny has been waging at MLB Network and on his NBC Sports Radio show. You’ve probably seen or heard some of it. Basically Kenny is crusading to kill pitcher wins as a stat. Now, I’m not sure that he really wants to eliminate the pitcher win. I suspect this is more about conscious rhetorical overstatement in order to shock people into looking at the issue more thoughtfully. Like, Kenny is at 11 in order to get people up to a 5. It makes sense, as do Kenny’s underlying arguments about why the win stat is misleading and way less useful than people tend to think. We’ve been talking about that for years here, of course.
But to the extent this is actually about killing the win — or to the extent people take the baton from Kenny and make extreme arguments about wins being utterly meaningless — I’m more on Heyman’s side of things. Heyman, you may not realize, is actually pretty sensible about pitcher wins. He voted for Felix Hernandez for the Cy Young a few years ago despite the low win totals. He understands that strikeouts and baserunners and stuff matter more than wins. This thinking somehow disappears when he starts talking about Jack Morris and the Hall of Fame but he’s no Hawk Harrellson or Harold Reynolds about these things.
I don’t value wins too much in pitcher analysis, but I don’t think they’re utterly meaningless. For me they’re attention-getters more than anything. When I’m looking through stats from past decades and I see pitchers with big win totals I tend to want to look more deeply at their stat lines to see what kind of season they really had. If I see pitchers who I know (or heard) were good, I notice low win totals and look at their teammates and strikeouts and unearned run totals and things. I use wins as a signpost, and I’m glad they’re there for those purposes. Growing up in the 70s and 80s wins were much talked about and no matter how much my thinking has advanced, I still key on them some. Having them around is like having the common phrases page in the back of your guidebook while traveling in a foreign country.
Also: wins are fun to talk about outside of analysis. As are bunts and batting average. I like having them around for that kind of fun and I like talking about them as long as people don’t mistake the fun talk for meaningful analytical talk. It’d be a real bummer if those stats disappeared simply because we don’t use them the way we used to.
Ultimately all of this may turn on how you feel about revolutions in general. I’m kind of a cautious guy with small-c conservative tendencies. I’m pro-change and advancement and think science and math and change and the future are wonderful things that we should embrace and not fear. But I am wary of rhetorical extremes and ideas which posit that the past is crap and must be abandoned if we are to advance.
Kill the win? Nah. Just reduce it’s significance. And keep it around like we keep around record players and manual typewriters and stuff. They’re neat.
Apr 20, 2014, 6:00 PM EDT
Chipper Jones is not a fan of Carlos Gomez.
Apr 20, 2014, 5:20 PM EDT
Dodgers ace Clayton Kershaw threw a 51-pitch, three-inning simulated game on Sunday in Los Angeles and could soon be cleared to embark on a minor league rehab assignment.
Apr 20, 2014, 4:12 PM EDT
The Cardinals have decided on a fill-in for starting pitcher Joe Kelly, who was placed on the 15-day disabled list Thursday with a strained left hamstring that he suffered Wednesday while trying to beat out a groundball. It’ll be 26-year-old lefty Tyler Lyons.
Apr 20, 2014, 3:07 PM EDT
A pretty vicious brawl just went down at PNC Park after Carlos Gomez of the Brewers went into home run celebration mode after slugging a Gerrit Cole pitch to the top of the center field wall …
Apr 20, 2014, 2:43 PM EDT
As first relayed by FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal, the Twins have claimed outfielder Sam Fuld off waivers from the A’s. Fuld was designated for assignment by Oakland last Saturday.
Apr 20, 2014, 1:51 PM EDT
MLB.com’s Carrie Muskat reports that Cubs top shortstop prospect Javier Baez is back in the lineup Sunday afternoon at Triple-A Iowa after missing a little over a week with soreness in his left ankle. He’ll serve as Iowa’s DH initially.
Apr 20, 2014, 1:08 PM EDT
Yankees first baseman Mark Teixeira is recovered from his Grade 1 right hamstring strain and is starting Sunday for the first time in over two weeks.
Apr 20, 2014, 12:14 PM EDT
The Tigers acquired Alex Gonzalez from the Orioles in late March after losing Jose Iglesias for the year and the veteran shortstop smacked a walkoff RBI single for Detroit on Opening Day. But he managed just three hits in 28 plate appearances after that and was officially released from the 25-man roster on Sunday.
Apr 20, 2014, 11:30 AM EDT
Jose Valverde allowed three runs in an inning of work Saturday night against the Braves — the latest in a string of rough outings. So manager Terry Collins decided Sunday morning to make a change …
Apr 20, 2014, 10:49 AM EDT
Yankees starter Ivan Nova has been diagnosed with a partially-torn ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow — an injury that almost always leads to Tommy John surgery.
Craig Kimbrel struggles in return from right shoulder issue, apologizes for reaction to being pulled
Apr 20, 2014, 10:15 AM EDT
Craig Kimbrel was called on Saturday for the first time since complaining of discomfort in his shoulder last Monday. The appearance did not go smoothly.
Apr 20, 2014, 9:37 AM EDT
Watch as Angels first baseman Albert Pujols moved to within two home runs of the big 500-homer milestone on Saturday afternoon against Tigers closer Joe Nathan …
Apr 20, 2014, 8:52 AM EDT
Mark Buehrle pitched seven innings of shutout ball and Jose Reyes had an RBI single in his first game back from a hamstring strain as Toronto rolled to a 5-0 win over the Indians on Saturday afternoon in Cleveland. Buehrle yielded just four hits and is now 4-0 on the season with a 0.64 ERA in 28 innings.
Apr 19, 2014, 11:45 PM EDT
Ike Davis makes a good impression with his new team.
Apr 19, 2014, 11:10 PM EDT
Evan Longoria climbs to the top of yet another Rays franchise leaderboard.
Apr 19, 2014, 10:30 PM EDT
John Lannan will report to Triple-A Las Vegas after being outrighted on Wednesday by the Mets.
Apr 19, 2014, 9:50 PM EDT
Veteran Chris Snyder hangs up the spikes, ending a ten-year stint in the big leagues.
Apr 19, 2014, 9:00 PM EDT
The Rangers lost Jim Adduci with a broken finger, but have called up one of their top prospects.
Apr 19, 2014, 8:15 PM EDT
The Braves could get Gavin Floyd back in early May after he makes at least two more rehab starts.
Apr 19, 2014, 7:35 PM EDT
The camera guy made a faux pas during the first inning of Saturday’s Angels-Tigers game.
- Benches clear in Pittsburgh after the Brewers’ Carlos Gomez bat flips a third-inning triple 76
- Yankees activate Mark Teixeira from the disabled list 0
- Ivan Nova diagnosed with a partially torn ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow 23
- Settling the Score: Saturday’s results 34
- Bryce Harper pulled from Saturday’s game for not hustling 93
- Hank Aaron is getting vile racist hate mail in retaliation for pointing out that racism still exists (248)
- “They Don’t Know Henry” (167)
- Doug Glanville’s story about being racially profiled at his own home (127)
- There is still a racial divide in baseball (112)
- Must-Click Link: Yasiel Puig’s harrowing journey to the United States (99)