Aug 27, 2013, 9:45 AM EST
So I’m reading the latest Jon Heyman column and I’m finding myself agreeing with him more than I am with people coming at the issue he’s discussing from a sabermetric point of view. And I wasn’t even hit on the head this morning or anything.
The topic: the Kill The Win campaign Brian Kenny has been waging at MLB Network and on his NBC Sports Radio show. You’ve probably seen or heard some of it. Basically Kenny is crusading to kill pitcher wins as a stat. Now, I’m not sure that he really wants to eliminate the pitcher win. I suspect this is more about conscious rhetorical overstatement in order to shock people into looking at the issue more thoughtfully. Like, Kenny is at 11 in order to get people up to a 5. It makes sense, as do Kenny’s underlying arguments about why the win stat is misleading and way less useful than people tend to think. We’ve been talking about that for years here, of course.
But to the extent this is actually about killing the win — or to the extent people take the baton from Kenny and make extreme arguments about wins being utterly meaningless — I’m more on Heyman’s side of things. Heyman, you may not realize, is actually pretty sensible about pitcher wins. He voted for Felix Hernandez for the Cy Young a few years ago despite the low win totals. He understands that strikeouts and baserunners and stuff matter more than wins. This thinking somehow disappears when he starts talking about Jack Morris and the Hall of Fame but he’s no Hawk Harrellson or Harold Reynolds about these things.
I don’t value wins too much in pitcher analysis, but I don’t think they’re utterly meaningless. For me they’re attention-getters more than anything. When I’m looking through stats from past decades and I see pitchers with big win totals I tend to want to look more deeply at their stat lines to see what kind of season they really had. If I see pitchers who I know (or heard) were good, I notice low win totals and look at their teammates and strikeouts and unearned run totals and things. I use wins as a signpost, and I’m glad they’re there for those purposes. Growing up in the 70s and 80s wins were much talked about and no matter how much my thinking has advanced, I still key on them some. Having them around is like having the common phrases page in the back of your guidebook while traveling in a foreign country.
Also: wins are fun to talk about outside of analysis. As are bunts and batting average. I like having them around for that kind of fun and I like talking about them as long as people don’t mistake the fun talk for meaningful analytical talk. It’d be a real bummer if those stats disappeared simply because we don’t use them the way we used to.
Ultimately all of this may turn on how you feel about revolutions in general. I’m kind of a cautious guy with small-c conservative tendencies. I’m pro-change and advancement and think science and math and change and the future are wonderful things that we should embrace and not fear. But I am wary of rhetorical extremes and ideas which posit that the past is crap and must be abandoned if we are to advance.
Kill the win? Nah. Just reduce it’s significance. And keep it around like we keep around record players and manual typewriters and stuff. They’re neat.
Mar 5, 2015, 11:01 PM EST
Nationals outfielder Bryce Harper is understandably confident about his team’s chances, but Zack Wheeler thinks the Mets can make things interesting.
Mar 5, 2015, 9:45 PM EST
Richards is scheduled to throw live batting practice on Saturday for the first time since knee surgery.
Mar 5, 2015, 8:29 PM EST
It was his first game action since last July 31.
Mar 5, 2015, 7:33 PM EST
Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan hears that Cuban infielder Hector Olivera could have UCL damage in his elbow, but Olivera’s camp has strongly denied the report.
Mar 5, 2015, 7:07 PM EST
The Giants will likely be without Pence for the first month of the season.
Mar 5, 2015, 6:13 PM EST
He would then return to Korea, where the 28-year-old was a former MVP.
Mar 5, 2015, 5:20 PM EST
Tony Clark adds that the leaks “are cowardly, undermine the integrity of our collectively bargained agreements and in some instances have been wholly inaccurate.”
Mar 5, 2015, 5:12 PM EST
He was bigger a few years ago, but he’s still a pretty big deal.
Mar 5, 2015, 4:46 PM EST
He may be a nice man, but no one likes to pay a visit to Dr. Andrews.
Mar 5, 2015, 3:45 PM EST
Darvish spent the final six weeks of last season on the disabled list.
Mar 5, 2015, 3:25 PM EST
It’s a minor-league deal with major-league money attached.
Mar 5, 2015, 2:52 PM EST
Chrome. No, not just the trim. The whole dang car is chrome.
Mar 5, 2015, 2:04 PM EST
He probably won’t be, though.
Mar 5, 2015, 1:30 PM EST
Just ask them. They’ll tell you so.
Mar 5, 2015, 11:39 AM EST
The union and the league are butting heads, but the deadlock should soon be broken.
Mar 5, 2015, 11:19 AM EST
Money is money, man.
Mar 5, 2015, 10:47 AM EST
“I used to throw hard. Now, not so hard.”
Mar 5, 2015, 10:15 AM EST
Why hasn’t Ethier been traded yet?
Mar 5, 2015, 9:12 AM EST
Coke is Chicago-bound.
Mar 5, 2015, 8:43 AM EST
And the fact that they are being leaked is unconscionable
- Hector Olivera’s camp denies any damage to ulnar collateral ligament 3
- UPDATE: Hunter Pence out 6-8 weeks with fracture in left forearm 21
- MLBPA: leaks are from people “who want to see Josh Hamilton hurt personally and professionally” 20
- Suspending Josh Hamilton for a year would be obscene 145
- Report: MLB panel split on rehab for Josh Hamilton; one-year suspension is in play 45
- Joc Pederson goes 2-for-2 in Cactus League debut 6
- Braves scratch Mike Minor from start with more shoulder problems 6
- Daniel Murphy on Billy Bean: “I do disagree with the fact that Billy is a homosexual” 373
- Daniel Murphy on Billy Bean: “I do disagree with the fact that Billy is a homosexual” (373)
- Suspending Josh Hamilton for a year would be obscene (145)
- Curt Schilling lowers the boom on some men tweeting threats against his daughter (137)
- That facts of Josh Hamilton’s case should not be a matter of public record (92)
- Billy Bean responds to Daniel Murphy’s comments (90)