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The Phillies fire pitching coach Rich Dubee

Sep 30, 2013, 11:03 AM EDT

This will solve everything:

Salisbury’s full story is here.

I guess when you have a bad season heads roll, and there’s no escaping the fact that the Phillies pitching staff, on the whole, was terrible (it ranked 27th out of 30 in ERA). But it’s hard to see how Dubee is responsible for what went on in Philly this year.

Roy Halladay is basically dead. Cliff Lee was amazing but was screwed by run support. Cole Hamels started poorly but rebounded. The bullpen faltered at inopportune times but, way more significantly, over 20 starts were given to flotsam like Tyler Cloyd, Ethan Martin, Raul Valdez and Zach Miner. Another 13 to Halladay. Fourteen to an ineffective John Lannan. Most of the blame would rest with the latent talent (or health in Halladay’s case) of the Phillies’ staff, not how they were coached by Dubee. That’s on Ruben Amaro, not Dubee.

Of course there’s also the matter of Ryne Sandberg taking over and, in all likelihood, wanting his own man on staff. Which is more understandable than Dubee being fired for cause.

  1. phillyphannn83 - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:13 AM

    Maybe Dubee had more of a hand in picking the talent along side Amaro than you know. Keep making assumptions Craig, you sound like a genius.

  2. Francisco (FC) - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:14 AM

    Of course there’s also the matter of Ryne Sandberg taking over and, in all likelihood, wanting his own man on staff. Which is more understandable than Dubee being fired for cause.

    That is the real reason, technically speaking Dubee wasn’t even fired; his contract was up after the end of the regular season. It’s the end of the regular season so…

    What could be pinned a bit on Dubee is the development (or lack thereof) of some of the younger relief pitchers. Aumont is a terrible mess right now as he went back and forth from the Majors to the Minors. Other than that, there’s a question of how much raw talent these bullpen arms have and how much coaching can polish or refine it.

  3. Old Gator - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:17 AM

    Fierce hones the battleaxe
    Although my neck will wear the scar….
    (Mike Timmins)

    Rich Dubee presided over a patchwork Feesh staph…I mean, staff…that couldn’t throw strikes or keep a ball in the park very well, and his head rolled for that too. But, a la Bertilak of Hautdesert, you chop orf his head and he puts it back on again. He just keeps picking the wrong castle to overnight.

    • richarddansky - Sep 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM

      And like a pitch thrown by Jeremy Horst, that reference is Gawain, Gawain, gone.

    • gloccamorra - Sep 30, 2013 at 1:32 PM

      No wonder ex-players want coaching jobs: once you get one, you’re part of a rotation and have a job somewhere, no matter how you perform. It’s almost like politics. But give the Phils credit, their move was actually related to the problem. They didn’t fire the trainer or bat boys (did they?).

  4. grapes911 - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:17 AM

    Charlie put full trust in Dubee when it came to handling the pitchers: how many innings to let them pitch, who to get up on the bullpen, who was available, etc. While part of the fault in on Charlie for giving Dubee so much power, Dubee worked those pitchers to the bone and made poor decisions. The guy was partially responsible the poor performance over the last few years and his firing was justified.

  5. mdpickles - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    Rod Nichols, new pitching coach.

  6. deepstblu - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    Quibble: Martin is still enough of a prospect to be excluded from the flotsam list, although his pattern of wearing down after a few innings has convinced the Phillies that his future will be in the bullpen.

    • paperlions - Sep 30, 2013 at 1:10 PM

      Martin’s problem is that he can’t throw strikes. He’s never even had a stop in AAA with a BB/9 less than 4…when you are walking 5/9, it it doesn’t give you much room for error….plus that lack of control often means that when you miss, you miss over the middle of the plate. He seems to miss bats fairly well, so the bullpen is an option…and if he dumps all but his FB and one other pitch, his control/command may improve enough to make him a decent reliever.

  7. stlouis1baseball - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:45 AM

    Ha! I read…Phillies fire up a Dubee.

    • mattinglystolemypopcorn - Sep 30, 2013 at 1:13 PM

      There may be a lot of demand for his services in Colorado starting next year.

      • nothanksimdriving123 - Sep 30, 2013 at 6:48 PM

        Seattle too.

  8. DelawarePhilliesFan - Sep 30, 2013 at 11:55 AM

    “Of course there’s also the matter of Ryne Sandberg taking over and, in all likelihood, wanting his own man on staff. ”

    Yes. And there is also the matter of Amaro’s 2014 firing, i.e. the brass will say “Charlie’s gone, Rich is gone – no more excuses Rube”

    • gloccamorra - Sep 30, 2013 at 1:37 PM

      So you’re saying the arrival of an ex-Cub results in the transformation of the Phillies?

      • DelawarePhilliesFan - Sep 30, 2013 at 3:51 PM

        I was agreeing with Craig that that plays a part, and that an equal part is the noose tightening around Amaro’s neck

  9. ochospantalones - Sep 30, 2013 at 12:05 PM

    I don’t particularly blame Dubee for the performance of the starters, though he may bear some of the blame for allowing Halladay to start as many games as he did these last two years. It is not clear how to apportion blame for that amongst Amaro, Charlie, Dubee and Halladay himself.

    What I do blame on Dubee is the bullpen. They have been totally unable to develop reliable relief pitchers internally. The last good one was Ryan Madson, with Antonio Bastardo being sort of ok. They have had an endless slew of live armed youngsters through the system, and while maybe a lot of these guys just weren’t very good you would think that by chance a couple of them would turn into useful relief pitchers. Phillippe Aumont is a giant with a mid-90’s fastball, someone needs to take the blame for a guy like that not developing. So as a Phillies fan I’m happy to move on and see if someone else can get more out of some the kids.

  10. thesmedman - Sep 30, 2013 at 12:25 PM

    Why do you call someone, who’s contract expired and is not going to be resigned, being “fired”?

    That said, not resigning Dubee was the correct move. Too associated with Manuel, and questionable management of pitchers through his tenure.

    Rod Nichols is widely expected to be his successor, but I do hope that the Phillies talk to Jamie Moyer first.

    Next up: bench coach. While I’d like to see Bowa, I don’t think it’s going to happen. Would not be surprised, though, to see Bob Dernier return to the Phillies as a coach.

    • greymares - Sep 30, 2013 at 1:19 PM

      Rod Nichols—60%
      Ray Burris —-40%

  11. gibbskins9 - Sep 30, 2013 at 12:28 PM

    Yeah, that’s the answer, Amaro is the problem

  12. biasedhomer - Sep 30, 2013 at 4:35 PM

    Dubee has been horrible forever. Even back in 2008, when he went to the mound to counsel the pitcher, it only made things worse.

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