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Yankees and Cardinals discussing David Freese trade

Nov 13, 2013, 3:45 PM EST

David Freese Getty Getty Images

According to Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News the Cardinals are talking to the Yankees about a deal for third baseman David Freese.

Freese is coming off a down year, he’s about to get expensive via arbitration, and the Cardinals could replace him by shifting Matt Carpenter to third base and installing rookie Kolten Wong at second base.

Even in a disappointing season Freese hit .262 with a .740 OPS and he’s a year removed from hitting .293 with 20 homers and an .839 OPS, so with Alex Rodriguez‘s status always uncertain it’s no secret why the Yankees might be interested if the price was right.

Freese, who’ll turn 31 years old in April, is under team control for 2014 and 2015 after making $3.15 million this year.

  1. bfunk1978 - Nov 13, 2013 at 3:49 PM

    For someone I expected to be non-tendered, trading Freese for anything would be an improvement. If he’s expecting a raise to be a part-timer in St. Louis I can’t imagine it would happen.

    • paperlions - Nov 13, 2013 at 4:00 PM

      He wouldn’t be non-tendered. He might get a raise to $4.X M….you can’t get anything on the FA market for that amount. His bat on the bench and the depth he would represent are worth more than his arbitration number will be this year….not like the Cardinals have a lot of position player depth right now.

      • bfunk1978 - Nov 13, 2013 at 4:04 PM

        Well I guess he’d pan out better than Ty Wigginton. :lol:

      • paperlions - Nov 13, 2013 at 4:05 PM

        Exactly.

  2. perryt200 - Nov 13, 2013 at 3:50 PM

    I love what Freese did for the Cards, he is a great hometown hero; but when it is time it is time.

    Hopefully with the Yanks he can get a great payday when it is time.

    • mick2014 - Nov 13, 2013 at 11:13 PM

      Freese did so much in so little time for the Cardinals organization. NLCS & World Series MVP in 2011. He made the 2012 All Star Team with a solid campaign. He had a bad year in 2013 but who who hasn’t ever had a bad year? He deserves a shot with the redbirds for a comeback season at 3B in 2014. All the Cardinals fans dissing this guy show how unsupportive they really are of their own.

      • stevequinn - Nov 14, 2013 at 9:50 AM

        Freese was plagued with a bad back almost the entire 2013 season. If that can be cleared up, he will bounce back and have another season like 2012.

  3. okwhitefalcon - Nov 13, 2013 at 3:52 PM

    Not surprising..

    No idea what Freese’s trade value would be or if the Yanks have anything that would remotely interest the Cards.

    • uyf1950 - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:10 PM

      Considering Freese’s injury history and 2013 being a bit of a down year performance wise I don’t think the Yankees would be willing give up very much. Probably a mid tier prospect at most.

      • spudchukar - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:30 PM

        Cards won’t make the deal for a mid-tier prospect. And the Yanks would be wise to do more. If Freese can regain his RF power swing, and I see no reason why he couldn’t, then he could easily hit 30 homers in 500 ABs.

        Plus he is the kind of guy who could handle all the glitz, championed by the NY media. And in a league that is unfortunately burdened with the DL, his playing time would increase. For a long time this is exactly the place I believe Freese can excel.

        The Cards are loaded with young prospects, and the likelihood they would be interested in an unproven commodity is remote. Somebody like Boone Logan might bring attention, making Siegrist available. And while he is the one player on the current staff I would hate to see go, he might be a necessary cog in a bigger deal for SS/CF.

      • uyf1950 - Nov 13, 2013 at 7:14 PM

        spudchukar my friend Freese has never hit close to 30 HR’s even in 2012 his All Star year he hit 20 HR’s in 567 PA’s. Whether or not anything materialize from these talks remains to be seen but I just don’t see Freese being worth much more then a mid level prospect, considering he’s not the best fielder in the world, he has an injury history and 2013 was a down year. In my book that’s the big 3 in red flags.

      • spudchukar - Nov 13, 2013 at 8:09 PM

        Your red flags are all valid, by friend. However, the Cards aren’t in a position of swinging a deal that won’t better their team in 2014. Most St. Louis observers know Freese is the odd man out in 2014. Wong is ready to take over the 2B position, and Carpenter, who made fantastic strides at second is really better suited as at 3B.

        If you would watch Freese on a day to day basis, you would be amazed at how many balls he hits deep to right. In St. Louis, some are outs some, some are doubles, a few are homers. In NY most would be doubles, many would be homers, and it would convince him that that is where his power numbers lie. It would make him a better overall hitter too.

        And while I am at it, Beltran would also be a boon to NY. Particularly in the second half, at least ten times he backed fielders to the wall in St. Louis. His track power there would translate into 30 homers in NY too.

        But Freese has value in St. Louis too. His heroics aren’t easily forgotten here, and Red Bird fans are loyal. He will get a bump to $5 mil max in arbitration, pittance to the Yanks, and no major obstacle to the Cards either. But if talks are real and the Yanks truly appreciate the skills Freese could bring then they are going to have to satisfy some need, and a mid-tier guy just doesn’t fit. Beltran is going to bring a #1, they have their own first round pick, and unless the Yanks either provide immediate major league enhancement, or somebody they can flip, the deal won’t go down.

  4. uyf1950 - Nov 13, 2013 at 4:58 PM

    I’m sure Freese is just one of several Plan B’s the Yankees are exploring in the event of or depending on the length of A-Rod’s suspension. It’s nice that he would be under team control for 2 years for a relatively small amount of money, by MLB standards.

  5. missingdiz - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:11 PM

    I don’t know what happened to Freese last year. Even his defense was worse, and it never was great. It would be great to have 2012 Freese back again. But the main thing wrong with this trade idea is the assumption that Kolten Wong can hit ML pitching. He couldn’t outhit Kozma this fall. I know he’s hit well in the minors, but it’s a big step up to ML. There’s no guarantee.

    • blues1988 - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:20 PM

      word around town is he was drinking more. that’s y he sucked last yr. not sure if it’s true, just heard it.

    • cardinalcrazy - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:54 PM

      Freese was too busy making Imo’s pizza commercials. Great pizza though.

      • deathmonkey41 - Nov 14, 2013 at 8:59 AM

        It’s like a wet cracker. My girlfriend grew up in St. Louis and raved about St. Louis style pizza. We got Imo’s when we were there- thoroughly disappointed. Give me North Jersey/New York Pizza anytime. I don’t even like pizza in Philly and there are a lot of my fellow Pisans here.

      • spudchukar - Nov 14, 2013 at 1:06 PM

        Judging St. Louis style pizza by Imo’s is like judging NY by Dominoes. CardCrazy is the only St. Louisian that I know that champions their product. It is a chain.

    • paperlions - Nov 13, 2013 at 6:08 PM

      Freese just looks like he’s getting old. Lot of injuries, not all that athletic….his athleticism took a major dive last year. Maybe there were nagging injuries and he can come back healthy and more productive….but it is pretty typical for players that don’t make the majors until they are 27 or so (like Freese) to have short careers. Essentially, only their career peaks make them good enough to be productive MLB players. That doesn’t mean it will be true for Freese, but it is not uncommon.

      The same phenomenon will always worry me about Allen Craig. He’s also not that athletic for a MLB player, was old when he finally made it to the majors, lots of injuries….I’d wouldn’t be surprised at all if he’s a bench player in 3 years. Like Freese, he can really hit, but I worry that the combination of injuries and lack of athleticism are going to lead to an early decline.

  6. oside760 - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:31 PM

    I think the Yankees would much rather have Chase Headley than David Freese

    • mjmarch47 - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:47 PM

      Cardinals too.

      • cardinalcrazy - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:56 PM

        San Diego too! Keep in mind David was in their minor league system back in 2007!

  7. mjmarch47 - Nov 13, 2013 at 5:52 PM

    I’m still not sold on Kolten Wong. He seems like another Tyler Greene from what I’ve seen so far. I’d rather see Freese go in a midseason trade once they know if they have a sure thing with Wong, or have Freese stick around if he can bounce back by midseason.

    • paperlions - Nov 13, 2013 at 6:01 PM

      This is just silly. Wong came up and then sat on the bench nearly every day. If you are basing your opinion of Wong on what you saw at the MLB level, then you don’t have enough information on which to base an opinion.

      • mjmarch47 - Nov 13, 2013 at 7:07 PM

        Bashing? I don’t see where you’re getting bashing from. I didn’t say he was a lost cause. I’m saying I am skeptical for the reasons you just said. BECAUSE WE DON’T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION ON HIM TO BASE AN OPINION ON and the Cardinals should wait and see with Wong before they go all in with him.

      • mjmarch47 - Nov 13, 2013 at 7:10 PM

        you said basing. My apologies.

      • deathmonkey41 - Nov 14, 2013 at 9:00 AM

        You said Wong.

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 9:12 AM

        A dream infield would be Cox, Johnson, Wong, and Peter.

      • Francisco (FC) - Nov 19, 2013 at 4:47 PM

        You have odd dreams paper.

      • paperlions - Nov 19, 2013 at 4:54 PM

        True.

        It is just an adaptation of a joke from an old friend. In grad school, two guys in the lab were named Carl Dick and Stephen Cox. Carl wanted to recruit people with names that double as penis references to collaborate on a paper about bacula, which would have been funny, but was never to be.

      • Francisco (FC) - Nov 19, 2013 at 4:56 PM

        Alas the World is all the more poorer for it.

  8. gibbyfan - Nov 13, 2013 at 6:09 PM

    Paper-Your right–can’t make a judgment yet butI think MJ is saying we should wait and see. Kozma was a 1st round pick too and while we might have a lot of pitching –not exactly flush with infielders

    • paperlions - Nov 13, 2013 at 7:22 PM

      Yes, “we” can or should wait, but the organization has a LOT more information on Wong than we do and they are far better at evaluating talent than we are….at some point, you just have to realize that you are dealing with < 1% of the information that the people making the decisions are making.

      • gibbyfan - Nov 13, 2013 at 8:07 PM

        Can’t argue with you on that—and that’s why none of us really knows why Shelby didn’t pitch in the WS………but on the other hand this is not brain science as they say……pretty obvious that Wong has not shown that he can hit at the MLB level……All of his numbers both minor and major league are there for all to see and analyze.
        One thing I would like to know is why don’t they try him at SS…….I’m sure there is a good reason, but I wonder.

      • paperlions - Nov 13, 2013 at 10:14 PM

        Wong hasn’t had a chance to show he can hit MLB pitching. He came up and sat on the bench…few players can come up at age 22 and sit on the bench every day and then magically hit in their 3-5 PAs/week mostly facing late inning relievers.

        There is a really good reason not to try Wong at SS. He can’t play it. He doesn’t have the range for it. Almost no IF can play SS, including many that stand there a lot…Descalso can’t play SS at all, it is really like have two 3B on the left side when he is standing where a real SS should.

  9. disgracedfury - Nov 13, 2013 at 7:19 PM

    The Yankees have good prospects the problem is there all three to five years away that’s why they can’t make a big trade but it’s Freese who for a third baseman is average.

    Trade Jose Campos or Mason Williams who would be a fair trade since we take on all the money.

    • paperlions - Nov 13, 2013 at 7:31 PM

      Yeah, I think this is a realistic scenario. The Yanks have some high upside position players that are a few years away and really, none of them had good developmental years in 2013, but the tools/potential is still there. I don’t see any reason the Cardinals would be interested in pitchers, they still have a TON of guys coming up that most people haven’t heard of….one of Williams/Austin might do it….not sure what else they have that the Cardinals would be interested in…unless they could get some international FA spending money from them.

      • uyf1950 - Nov 14, 2013 at 6:55 AM

        Even with Williams and Austin struggling a bit in 2013 especially Williams. I doubt the Yankees would be willing to trade either their #2 or #3 prospects for Freese. Freese just doesn’t bring enough to the table for the Yankees to make that trade. He’s a complimentary player, there are other options for the Yankees for example Mark Reynolds.or even Juan Uribe. At least that’s my opinion.

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 7:19 AM

        I agree. The Yankees just don’t have anything else I know of that would remotely be of interest to StL. I don’t see anything on their 40 man that StL needs and those 2 (and Sanchez) are the Yanks only decent position player prospects….at least, that they can trade. Jagielo seems promising

  10. okwhitefalcon - Nov 13, 2013 at 9:23 PM

    Per Ken Rosenthal:

    Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal
    Source: Freese trade to #Yankees unlikely. Difficult for teams to find match. Yanks have little to offer #STLCards.

    • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 7:43 AM

      When looking at the Yanks roster and prospect list, I thought the same thing. Not much there the Cardinals would be interested in (absolutely nothing on the Yanks 40 man that the Cardinals would want….all if it is too old, too expensive, or too crappy) and their 2 best position prospect options for trade had worse years in 2013 than a couple of guys the Cardinals had playing at the same level(s). Piscotty and Ramsey looked pretty good last year and both have continued to show well in the AFL. They may not have the raw tools and hype that Austin and Williams have, but they have shown to be as good or better at actually playing baseball.

  11. saintsfire - Nov 14, 2013 at 6:03 AM

    Mr. Deep 2011 Freese will never have to buy a beer again in StL

    just discussing trading the hometown hero is pretty sad

    • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 7:44 AM

      I guess, but reality is often sad. Nostalgia should guide baseball decisions (i.e. teams shouldn’t choose to be worse because a guy was a post-season here once).

      • spudchukar - Nov 14, 2013 at 10:36 AM

        Question for you PL. I think I know the answer but not sure. If the Cards chose to sign both Drew and Elsbury, , doubtful though the chances are, especially since they are Boras’ clients, signs with Boston, and Boston signs Beltran would St. Louis lose their next to last spot in the draft to the Red Sox in round one and round two, but retain Boston’s spot in round one?

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 12:18 PM

        They changed the compensation rules. Now, if you sign a player that turned down a QO, you lose your top pick (with the top 10 picks protected). So, if the Cardinals signed Drew and Ellsbury, the Cards would lose their first rounder and then the comp pick they got for Beltran. If the Sox sign only Beltran and no other QO players, then they lose their highest pick (#30). Teams don’t get the pick of the team that signed their player anymore….just the comp pick, and comp pick position is based on previous year’s record, which is why the Cardinals’ comp pick will be the last one no matter who signs Beltran.

      • spudchukar - Nov 14, 2013 at 12:43 PM

        OK, I think I get it, but one more technicality. St. Louis and Boston had identical records, if the Sox sign Beltran, do we flip a coin, has it already been flipped, or am I too dense to get the compensation order?

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 12:46 PM

        That was already determined somehow. This link has the official draft order for round 1 and the comp picks. No idea why StL got the last pick, might have been a coin flip.

        http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/jonathan-mayo-all-qualifying-offers-declined-2014-draft-order-clearer?ymd=20131111&content_id=63845866&vkey=news_mlb

      • spudchukar - Nov 14, 2013 at 12:51 PM

        OK, thanks a lot.

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 12:53 PM

        I was really rooting for Beltran to sign with a particular team to get StL a higher pick, until I remembered that this year the rules are changed and comp pick order is pre-determined. I guess we can still root for all QO players to sign with teams that don’t have a protected pick…every such signing will move the Cards picks up one spot….they have 4 picks in the top 84 as of right now.

      • spudchukar - Nov 14, 2013 at 1:10 PM

        Yeah me too. That coin flip or whatever the method was, was pretty significant with it effecting all three of Boston’s free agents. In the future a different method will probably be adopted, with the losing flip team losing the choice only in the first free agent selected.

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 1:12 PM

        Yeah, I don’t know how it works….alphabetical order? :-)

        It used to be that comp pick order was based on ranking of the FAs. It would seem a better system to rank them by the contracts the FA signs with teams losing higher priced guys getting higher picks.

      • spudchukar - Nov 14, 2013 at 2:27 PM

        As is customary MLB probably didn’t think this through, cause allowing Boston to receive 3 picks theoretically before St. Louis is hardly fair.

      • paperlions - Nov 14, 2013 at 2:29 PM

        Plus, the idea is allegedly to compensate teams that can’t afford to keep their FAs, but a look at the list every year reveals that it is mostly high salary teams that are “losing” FAs….and often smaller market teams won’t extend the QO for fear that they’ll accept it (like the Pirates and Burnett).

  12. deathmonkey41 - Nov 14, 2013 at 8:57 AM

    Leave A-Rod alone!!!

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