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My imaginary Hall of Fame ballot

Nov 27, 2013, 10:56 AM EST

Tom Glavine

I don’t have a Hall of Fame ballot, of course, but most people don’t and they pick their hypothetical ballot, so I’ll pick mine.

Note: this is not my assessment of who I think will get in. I’ll get to that later. These are just my thoughts on the guys and my selections. And, in case you’re new around here, I (a) do not disqualify guys who have been linked to or accused of performance-enhancing drug use for a host of reasons I’ve expained numerous times before, though I may discount their accomplishments somewhat as a result of drug use; and (b) I don’t limit myself to ten choices because the ten-vote rule real Hall of Fame voters have to abide by is dumb.

So, without further ado, here is my take on everyone on this year’s ballot, with my choices bolded:

  • Moises Alou: Very good for a long time, never great, though. I usually prefer to see a Hall of Fame peak and a long valuable career. Not seeing the peak here.
  • Jeff Bagwell: Yep.Been making this case for two years. For about a decade he was the third best hitter in baseball, behind only Barry Bonds and Frank Thomas.
  • Armando Benitez: Hahaha, no. Though he did once have a Hall of Fame-level quote, telling reporters “I did MY job” after he blew a save because of a defensive miscue behind him. Armando always had your back.
  • Craig Biggio: Crazy underrated. Was not just some guy who limped to 3,000 hits. Plus defense, did everything well, played in bad hitting ballparks for many years. No argument for Ryne Sandberg excludes Biggio and Sandberg is in the Hall.
  • Barry Bonds: If you have to ask.
  • Sean Casey: Great guy. Aesthetically speaking, I love first basemen like him. More fun than the fat guys who hit 50 homers. But my aesthetic preferences don’t a Hall of Famer make.
  • Roger Clemens: If you have to ask.
  • Ray Durham: Looking back, he’s better than I remembered him. Enjoy your one year on the ballot, though, Ray.
  • Eric Gagne: Really looking forward to someone saying “hey, he may have been ‘roided up to his eyeballs, but the ninth inning IS THAT TOUGH. Closers have an excuse because they have the most difficult job this side of hostage negotiators and powder monkeys!” OK, maybe they won’t, but it is fun to think of PED-hysteria clashing head-on with Closer Fixation Syndrome.
  • Tom Glavine: He’s what Jack Morris supporters like to pretend Jack Morris was, even though he wasn’t. A workhorse who just knew how to win and all of that. Except Glavine was, actually, among the best pitchers in baseball for most of his prime and has contemporary awards and accolades to back up the retrospective praise.
  • Luis Gonzalez: He hit 26 more homers in 2001 than he ever did in any other year. But he didn’t break any records doing it, so no one gives him any crap about it. I guess the key to a 90s-2000s player securing his legacy was to be just short of truly great.
  • Jacque Jones: The anti-Ray Durham. I feel like people talked about him as way better than he was, mostly because he hit 27 homers a couple of times and 27 is sort of a magic homer number in a lot of people’s minds. If you hit 27 homers, you’re a “power hitter.” If you hit 26, you’re a “20 homer guy.” And those things aren’t the same.
  • Todd Jones: Points for a mustache and closing down old Tiger Stadium I guess.
  • Jeff Kent:  .290/.356/.500 while playing a pretty darn solid second base for 17 years? Yes, please. If you’re going with Biggio and went with Sandberg as I did, I’m not sure how you go against Kent. I suppose if he gets less support it’s because he didn’t really fit the mold and expectations of a second baseman as a pesky little guy with gap power and because he switched teams several times. For those reasons I feel like he’s going to be a good example of how crazy and subjective Hall of Fame voting can be.
  • Paul Lo Duca: Guy should get a sympathy vote for paying for his PEDs with a personal check, as described in the Mitchell Report.
  • Greg Maddux: I tend not to get too wound up about the actual vote totals guys get, but I’m really looking forward to seeing the explanation of the folks who leave Maddux off the ballot and keep him from being unanimous. As someone surely will. Maybe because he got LASIK surgery that time? A character objection based on that story about him peeing on guys’ feet in the shower? Can’t wait.
  • Edgar Martinez: I think he belongs. I also wonder if I’d include him if I was limited to ten slots like real Hall of Fame voters are. He’s not a slam dunk, but as the best or, by the time Ortiz is done, maybe second base full-time DH ever, I think he’s deserving.
  • Don Mattingly: Close but no cigar. He had the peak, but not the staying power. “But … injuries!” is no excuse. They kept him from providing value to his teams. Not fair, not his fault, but no one said fair or fault had anything to do with it.
  • Fred McGriff: I’ve wavered on him for years. I used to say no, then I started saying yes once I looked at just how different the pre-1993 era and post-1993 eras were for offense. McGriff’s pre-1993 numbers were really damn good for the time and he, unfortunately, straddled both eras in a way that made his overall stats look less impressive than they were. A yes for these purposes, but if I only had ten he falls off.
  • Mark McGwire: Yes. He hit for power and walked like crazy and was simply fantastic.
  • Jack Morris: He’s a no for me — just not good enough — but I’ve put down my pitchfork.
  • Mike Mussina: 270 wins, 123 ERA+, durability, a lot of good postseason work. Yeah, I think he makes it, even if there wasn’t a peak where he was clearly the best pitcher in baseball. He’s like Jeff Kent in a lot of ways. People didn’t routinely talk about him as a Hall of Famer during his career, but when you look at the value he provided he was way better than a lot of guys people do tout as shoe-ins. He was better than Pettitte. Better than Catfish Hunter. Better than Jim Bunning, Early Wynn and, depending on how you measure things, Whitey Ford.
  • Hideo Nomo: He is a first-ballot crazy windup Hall of Famer.
  • Rafael Palmeiro: A closer call than his raw numbers would suggest — 500 homers and 3000 hits still turns heads —but he looks less impressive when you adjust for the parks he played in and the era in which he played. I’d lean yes, however, if I had room on the ballot.
  • Mike Piazza: Best hitting catcher ever. A travesty that he wasn’t in last year.
  • Tim Raines: Was baseball’s best player for several years in the mid-80s. Suffers because his most similar player was Rickey Henderson and they were contemporaries. He was way closer to Rickey than, say, Omar Vizquel was to Ozzie Smith, so let’s watch how those kind of comps work one day. He shoulda been in long ago.
  • Kenny Rogers: Can’t wait for the re-hashed “he couldn’t handle New York” columns from some bored New York columnist this holiday season.
  • Curt Schilling: Better than Morris. Similar to Mussina. Dominant in peak seasons, but strangely had peak years more scattered over his career than many. Killer in the playoffs. I think he’s a Hall of Famer.
  • Richie Sexson: The phrase “tall drink of water” always pops into my head when I think of him.
  • Lee Smith: He gets a lot of support, but nah. I’m a tougher grader on closers than a lot of people are. Too much hoodoo and mythology surrounds the concept if you ask me.
  • J.T. Snow: Really loving the “guys I watched play minor league ball when I was in college make the Hall of Fame ballot” era. Really not making me feel old or anything.
  • Sammy Sosa:  Crazy peak. I know people like to discount the steroids guys, but people discount him too much. One cannot be a mere PED-creation and still dominate like Sosa did. There was real baseball talent there. More than folks want to admit now, probably because Sosa was weird and has seemed to have gotten weirder since he retired.
  • Frank Thomas: No-brainer. He was a beast. One of the rare guys everyone will admit was among the best hitters ever yet still winds up underrated.
  • Mike Timlin: Four World Series rings. That’s four more than Barry Bonds has, suckers.
  • Alan Trammell: Criminally underrated. The guy who makes me still want to argue about MVP awards, because if he won it like he deserved to in 1987, I feel like the perception of him would be totally different among a certain class of Hall of Fame voter. He did everything well at a premium defensive position on a championship-caliber team for a decade.
  • Larry Walker: I’ve always leaned no, mostly because of Coors. A lot of people tell me I’m wrong to do that. I may be. He was good on the road too. A five-time All-Star, seven-time Gold Glove winner in right, an MVP and three batting titles? Power and speed? You know, I think I may have been wrong about him. Changing my mind.

Cripes, that’s 19 dudes. Oh well, blame the voters who haven’t voted in the multiple guys who should have been elected years ago for allowing the ballot to get all clogged up like this.

If I had to drop it to ten, I’d cut off Walker, Sosa, Palmeiro, McGriff, Martinez, McGwire, Schilling, Mussina and Kent. But I wouldn’t be happy about most of those guys. As for who I think makes it? If I had to guess I’d say Maddux, Glavine, Biggio, Thomas and Jack Morris. That’s it. And I may be wrong about Morris.

Anyway, that’s mine. What’s yours?

  1. baseballici0us - Nov 27, 2013 at 10:58 AM

    What, NBC can’t buy you a vote a-la Deadspin?

    • baseballici0us - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:13 AM

      PS:

      Maddux
      Glavine
      McGwire
      McGriff
      Thomas
      Mussina
      Martinez
      Piazza
      Bagwell
      Biggio

      and Morris just because I’m tired of the argument about whether he should or shouldn’t be in.

      • rje49 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:56 AM

        Re: Morris- the argument will end this year one way or the other.
        He won’t get in.

      • baseballici0us - Nov 27, 2013 at 3:07 PM

        Oh! Well, I kinda hope he gets it…sympathy and all.

    • skids003 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:28 PM

      Good choices, Craig. Maybe the BBWAA should look at itself, and give ballots to people actually knowledgeable about the sport.

      • redsghost - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:42 PM

        As long as one of those ballots doesn’t make it’s way to Craig.

  2. BigGreen89 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:02 AM

    I don’t think you meant to bold Ray Durham, unless he was *a lot* better than you remembered…

    • BigGreen89 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:08 AM

      Even worse — he wasn’t one of the nine you kicked out later on… ;-)

  3. jm91rs - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:05 AM

    No one gets in this year either. They’re going to let it backlog to about 50-75 worth candidates and let the veterans committee take care of everyone one at a time. Meanwhile the Hall of Fame itself will go out of business because there are no new fans showing up to check it out.

  4. tc4306 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:15 AM

    Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Jack Morris, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Frank Thomas, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker.
    Nothing against Schilling, Mussina, McGriff or Martinez but can only pick 10.

    For me, Morris is a “yes”..and you can make a case for Dave Stieb too.
    I lived through a 10yr period in the 70’s and 80’s; when, if you needed to win
    one game, Morris or Stieb (and later Clemens) would have been the guy you wanted to pitch it. Last chance for Morris.
    The 4 guys left off (plus question mark Kent) will be on the ballot for a while.
    Would look to them as “my guys” ahead of them got in or dropped off.

    As for who gets in, maybe not many if voters submit blank ballots or ballots containing only one or two names. Maddux and Thomas should get in for sure.
    Past that its just a guess and Craig’s guess is as good or better than most.

    • Detroit Michael - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:39 PM

      I can’t see how one would rate Jack Morris ahead of both Schilling and Mussina, other than for tactical reasons (Morris is near 75% entering his last year on the ballot).

  5. tombando - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:20 AM

    All for most of your picks cc, save Black Jack…is there a decent hof case for Alou? Chili Davis/Jermaine Dye time if you ask me. Oh and if Ted Simmons got in, happy dance.

    • metroplexsouthsider - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:05 PM

      I hope the Vets Committee votes Simba in. Simmons got overshadowed by Bench, unfortunately.

  6. KR - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:21 AM

    4 World Series rings indeed. Mike Timlin knows how to win.

    • gothapotamus90210 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:16 PM

      If only Hawk Harrelson had a ballot.

  7. chip56 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:21 AM

    I don’t really care about Hall of Fame voting but I’m rooting for Kent and Morris just to watch Barry Bonds and Brian Kenny self destruct

  8. greej1938l - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:27 AM

    Wish baseball would come to there senses and include Pete rose already

  9. phillysports1 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    Lo duca ? What in the world ?

  10. pestiesti - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:29 AM

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Maddox
    Bagwell
    Piazza
    Thomas
    Schilling
    Trammell
    Raines
    Mussina

    And if we can go over 10 votes:
    Glavine
    Palmeiro
    Martinez
    Walker

    • pestiesti - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:30 AM

      I of course meant Maddux not Maddox.

  11. dohpey28 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:30 AM

    I stop looking at any ballot that includes Ray Durham over Don Mattingly. Oh yeah and I’m a Mets fan.

    • sdelmonte - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:33 AM

      Just wondering: what about Keith? I always felt he should have been a shoo-in but no one else seems to think so.

      • dan1111 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:13 PM

        He is a marginal case. I wouldn’t vote him in, but he had more career value than McGriff.

      • dohpey28 - Nov 27, 2013 at 3:17 PM

        What hurts him is no power as a firstbaseman. To be a HOF 1B with no power you need to hit 330-340 a la Rod Carew. Love Keith, he and Mattingly are the 2 best defensive firstbasemen I’ve ever seen, but he’s on just on the outside looking in just like Donnie.

  12. phillysports1 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:32 AM

    Bernie Williams was better than half of those players you just mentioned .

    • aphillieated - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:01 PM

      Not better than Frank Thomas

    • metroplexsouthsider - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:07 PM

      Nope. That said, McGriff and others are “no” in my book.

    • dan1111 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:18 PM

      Williams would be the least valuable position player on the list by WAR. He is not far behind Kent and McGriff, though I wouldn’t vote for them either.

      There is no denying that he had a strong peak, but it was too short, and he was let down by poor defense.

  13. sdelmonte - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:32 AM

    My list has eleven I absolutely think should be in and two I am borderline about

    For sure:
    Bonds
    Clemens
    Bagwell
    Biggio
    Piazza
    Glavine
    Maddux
    Martinez
    Thomas
    Trammell
    Raines

    Borderline:
    McGwire
    Sosa
    (It’s not the PEDs; it’s that nagging feeling that both are one trick ponies. There are many players not as good as either in the Hall now so them getting in wouldn’t bother me. But I don’t really feel like they cross the threshhold.)

    If I have to drop one from my list, I would say Glavine. And then we bring him back next year and have him go in with Smoltz instead of Maddux. Wish all three would enter the same day.

    As for who does get in: Thomas and Maddux are lead pipe locks; if they don’t get in, might as well just close the Hall. Morris probably makes it. Glavine is very close, though I bet some stupid voters leave him off as some asinine way to honor Maddux. And I think that the nonsensical taint of Bagwell rubs off on Biggio at least a little.

    • paperlions - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:41 AM

      McGwire wasn’t a one-trick pony. He was a more productive hitter than Frank Thomas once you account for park effects. No one with an OBP or .394 and a SLG of .588 is a one trick pony. He was also a better base runner and a better defender than Thomas.

      I think Thomas was fantastic, but the ability of people to elide over McGwire like all he did was hit HRs and he sucked at everything else is just amazing to me. If you are going to ignore PEDs (and really, we have no idea what anyone did during their careers), the only thing Thomas has in his favor in this comparison durability.

  14. churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:37 AM

    I’ve always leaned no, mostly because of Coors. A lot of people tell me I’m wrong to do that. I may be. He was good on the road too.

    H/A splits from 1995 to 2003:

    H – 570 Games; .385/.465/.721- 1.186 OPS; 790 H, 174 2b, 29 3b, 152 HR; 544 R, 512 RBI
    A – 562 Games; .279/.382/.508 – .890 OPS; 536 H, 114 2b, 12 3b, 100 HR; 326 R, 316 RBI

    He was a monster at home, but still a really really good player away.

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:38 AM

      Oops forgot the spreadsheet with #s

      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApZZhwNFk6sYdF84UTBpeEdEY2NRd3VacnNvUHNXa2c&usp=sharing

    • metroplexsouthsider - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:24 PM

      I’d deduct one “really” from your road split.

      And, per a previous conversation, I have scientific reason to say he’s not a HOFer.

      From a previous blog post:

      At Baseball-Reference, if you click the “more stats” link near the top of Walker’s profile, you’ll get much more of a profile, including neutralized stats. They peg him at a .299 BA, 365 HRs, 1,201 runs and 1,175 RBIs.

      Can you really say that’s a Hall of Fame career? I won’t. And, as for a string of dominance, with park normalization he might have lost the first of his batting titles, to John Olerud. And, lost his one home run title in 1997 to Jeff Bagwell, who was still playing in the Astrodome.

      http://socraticgadfly.blogspot.com/2010/12/larry-walker-another-non-hofer-getting.html

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:54 PM

        So you neutralized his stats far below league average, to prove what? That neutralized stat shows what he, hypothetically, would have put up with 4.42 r/g when the league averages for his peak years of ’97 to ’02 were:

        ’97 – 4.6
        ’98 – 4.6
        ’99 – 5.0
        ’00 – 5.0
        ’01 – 4.7
        ’02 – 4.45

        Using the 750 runs metric, we get a batting line of:

        .300/.385/.542 for a .927 OPS (unadjusted that would be 44th best in history) who was a decent defender and good baserunner.

  15. yahmule - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:52 AM

    The only mortal lock, IMO, is Maddux. He not only won’t be touched by the backlash, he could well be seen by many voters as the perfect anti-PED candidate. I would like to see Raines, Walker, Biggio, Bagwell, Martinez, Thomas, Piazza and Trammell enshrined some day. I assume Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, Sosa and the other really likable guys will be inducted some day, except maybe Palmeiro and Schilling.

    • metroplexsouthsider - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:14 PM

      True. That said, with 3K hits and Mr. Clean image, I thought Biggio was the perfect anti-PED candidate to get in next year.

      Big Mac? Deducting for roiding’s aids, he’s not a HOFer in my book, and I’m a Cards fan. Neither is Walker, due to a mix of too many injuries and Coors splits.

      On the other roiders, I’d say no on Raffy and Sammy.

      • yahmule - Nov 27, 2013 at 1:47 PM

        Somebody mentioned that Bagwell’s problems with the voters might have somehow spilled over onto Biggio. Seems ridiculous, but believable in light of all the other nonsense around this situation.

      • raysfan1 - Nov 27, 2013 at 3:30 PM

        Not maybe. I read columns by voters last year who actually said that they felt first that it was too likely that Bagwell did PEDs to vote for him since he was a body builder who hit home runs and was a team mate of Ken Caminiti’s. Then in the same columns the person also stating they would not vote for Biggio because he was a team mate of Bagwell and Caminiti. Pure guilt by association.

  16. chip56 - Nov 27, 2013 at 11:52 AM

    I’m trying to figure out how Kirby Puckett is in the Hall of Fame but Don Mattingly isn’t good enough?

    • metroplexsouthsider - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:11 PM

      Puckett was borderline but got in because of the way his career ended. Donnie Baseball wasn’t even borderline.

      There. I figured it out for you.

      • chip56 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:41 PM

        Puckett finished with .318/.360/.837 207 HR, 2300 hits and 1085 RBI

        Mattingly finished with .307/.358/.830 222 HR, 2153 hits and 1099 RBI

        I don’t disagree with the notion that sentiment helped get Puckett in, but if one’s borderline they’re both borderline.

      • Kevin S. - Nov 27, 2013 at 4:56 PM

        Puckett played plus defense at a much more important position, and he still really didn’t deserve to get in.

    • dan1111 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:26 PM

      Mattingly had only four truly great seasons, and he played the position most crowded with good hitters. The only reason he gets any support at all is that he was a Yankee star in an era when the Yankees had few stars.

    • gothapotamus90210 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:29 PM

      Not an endorsement either way, but they had very similliar offensive output: Puckett 1,783 games / 7,831 PA / 3,453 total bases / .837 OPS,, Mattingly 1,785 games / 7,722 PA / 3,301 TBs / .830 OPS.

      That translates to 50.8 WAR for Puck and 42.2 for Mattingly, per BBRef. Both were also below average defenders for their career per BBRef.

      Agree with the other poster that Puck was borderline and got in on sentiment. Also, fairly or unfairly, Puck had two rings, Donny had 0.

  17. aphillieated - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:05 PM

    Sosa was a strikeout machine. If it wasn’t because of the juice we would’t be talking about him.

  18. Ducky Medwick - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:07 PM

    How about Boggs as 9th in that ’87 MVP vote? Yeesh.

  19. tc4306 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:07 PM

    Two big debates are
    (1) Should the PED guys get in?
    and
    (2) Should Morris get in.
    Plus, one can make cases for and against several other guys.

    The interesting thing about this exercise is that no matter which side of those debates you’re on, you can easily make up a credible HOF ballot of 8-10 deserving candidates. (Unless you’re one of those people whose point of view is “unless your selections agree with mine, your selections are not credible.”)

    Point is there should be NO EXCUSE for those with ballots to return blank ballots or any ballots with only one or two names.

    • mjmarch47 - Nov 27, 2013 at 10:13 PM

      It just send a bad message that you can cheat and still make the Hall of Fame when too many of today’s players are still cheating. It’s a terrible precedent. It’s bad enough they can still sign contracts for 13.25 million a year after getting suspended for 50 games for PEDs. At the very least, this is something you can withhold from PED users.

      I know it’s nothing more then suspicion for some, but at the very least, it is a definite no for those players that admitted to using.

  20. metroplexsouthsider - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:09 PM

    No on likely roiders until they, union, Bud, managers all fess up. After that, discounting for the boost from long-term roiding, Raffy, Big Mac, Sosa are “no” in my book Bonds and Clemens “yes.”

    Speaking of “boost,” was it the roids that led Raffy to start taking, as well as pitching, Viagra?

    McGriff and Gar are “no.”

    • Detroit Michael - Nov 27, 2013 at 1:12 PM

      Big Mac did ‘fess up: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/joe_posnanski/01/12/posnanski.mcgwire/

  21. aphillieated - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:09 PM

    Sucks that I didn’t saw most of the players on that list play :(

  22. Old Gator - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:33 PM

    “I don’t have a Hall of Fame ballot, of course,” he says nonchalantly, as if it weren’t killing him.

  23. kelshannon19 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:44 PM

    Even if Alou did get in, what team would he go in with? Great with the Astros, very good with the Cubs.

  24. jrobitaille23 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:53 PM

    Thank God Craig doesn’t have a vote. This is supposed to be the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of the very good, or Hall of Fame with PED help. People keep pushing for the killer B’s from Houston but they to people who can actually tell, were the poster boys for the PED era. Bonds, Clemens, Piazza are your obvious users and should not get in. But the era is defined by the fact that EVERYONE was using and most were able to fool the media and fans and hide it better. Maybe that’s why Biggio and Bagwell won’t get it, because those are the exact type of players (would just not be good enough on God given talent) that shouldn’t get it. The Bonds, Clemens types, true HOF talents PED or no PED should get it.

    I personally think PED use has been rampant in all sports since the 1970s when it became widespread in BodyBuilding, the Olympics, and Football. To think guys Rice, Dawson, Winfield, Garvey, etc were clean is just putting your head in the sands.

    Cue the downvotes from fanboys and pencil neck geeks who have no idea the difference between a clean player and dirty

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:57 PM

      Even if they used PEDs, please tell us what rules they broke oh wise and learned fellow? What should keep these man out of the HoF other than your outrage?

      • jrobitaille23 - Nov 27, 2013 at 4:19 PM

        the rules of fair play. why do people justify this behavior. This is cheating. Taking PEDs enhances your physicality either through muscle gain or healing quicker. It’s a simple fact that those who take PED along with working out, gain muscle mass, stay healthier, have quicker bat speed, and can throw the ball harder. Why is this so hard for people to believe? You are taking the ability you are born with an have optimized through natural means, and amplifying it. You’ve seen the results of it with Bonds’ numbers, Clemens’ longevity and Cy Youngs, etc.

        It isn’t an even playing field. And saying it was because everyone was doing it is irrelevant. I will use Robin Yount as an example. That guy is a HOF. To my ‘trained’ eyes he did not use PED. Him being a natural player and his numbers as a result back that up. Paul Molitor on the other hand, up through his age 30 season was a above average player and his natural body and the numbers he produced backed it up. But in the mid 80s (right when I believe many top players i.e. Canseco, Mgwire, Ricky, Bell, etc started using) he transformed. He suddenly looked jacked and his numbers from age 30 on are among the best I think you’ll find outside of the truly elite all time greats. Do you remember seeing him as he was approaching his mid to late 30s?

        He along with most of the more modern PED suspects really screwed up everything for the HOF. Because without PEDs Molitor would not have been that good for as long and his numbers wouldn’t justify his election.

        But people really see this issue black and white so I know I just wasted 5 minutes for nothing. Unless one of these PED users comes out and quantifies it by saying “I gained 5 mph on my fastball after I began taking…or I started turning doubles into homers and was able to wait on pitches longer because my swing speed increased…nobody will change their mind. Too many people like you laughed at Jose Canseco and his claims only to find he was actually being truthful. Truth hurts especially when it’s about your idols.

    • indaburg - Nov 27, 2013 at 1:06 PM

      That was enlightening.

      • jrobitaille23 - Dec 4, 2013 at 8:43 PM

        your post as well

    • nategearhart - Nov 27, 2013 at 1:17 PM

      If you can tell Piazza and Biggio used PEDs by looking at them, then nothing is to stop me from assuming by the way you structure your sentences that you are a child molester. You sick bastard.

      • jrobitaille23 - Nov 27, 2013 at 4:01 PM

        ummm…clearly not even remotely in the same ballpark. When you are a personal trainer, as I have been, worked out for over 30 years, and know people on and off the juice, you get to see the differences. So great analogy tool. You need a beating for being a creep but alas, you sit tucked safely away in your mom’s basement

    • yahmule - Nov 27, 2013 at 3:49 PM

      Hold your entries, folks. The worst post of the day has been identified. No sense waiting around for somebody to post anything dumber than this.

  25. jburk003 - Nov 27, 2013 at 12:54 PM

    As a young Giants fan, it’s really not surprising Paul Lo Duca took the juice. I remember when he was younger the dude used to rake! It seemed like every time he got to the plate he hit the ball solid.

    Then all of the sudden you never heard about the guy again.

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