Skip to content

A none-too-pretty look inside the Veteran’s Committee voting process

Dec 11, 2013, 1:30 PM EDT

Cooperstown

Bruce Jenkins of the San Francisco Chronicle was one of the 16 members of the Veteran’s Committee this year, and he voted on the Hall of Fame earlier this week. Today he has a column about that process and it’s pretty eye-opening.

The first part: how sworn to silence the committee members are. Jenkins talks of how unwilling the ex-players, executives and historians would be to participate in the process if their votes or thoughts behind them were made public. Which may be true, but it also speaks of everything wrong with the process. There is no accountability at all. The Hall of Fame is about history and merit, not about whether people might be offended at how you voted. That difference can, if perpetuated over time, be the difference between legitimate institution and a glorified fraternal society.

But the secrecy was not the biggest problem. It was what were clearly hidebound thinkers on the committee. Jenkins speaks of the deliberations:

At one point, someone asked if it was necessary to bring WAR, a trendy new stat, into any discussion. There was a bit of mumbling, mostly silence, and it never came up again . . . Whatever. I certainly didn’t feel dated or out of touch hashing out a man’s Hall of Fame credentials with Robinson, Fisk, Herzog or anyone else involved. I’m sure the brilliant Hirdt could have backed his opinions with WAR, WHIP or any other statistical measure known to man, but he spoke of traditional numbers and criteria of considerable weight: character, temperament, clutch performance and other intangibles, such as how it felt to witness the greats, and how they were viewed by other icons of the game.

I don’t think that mindset made a difference in this year’s election. None of the players on the ballot, I feel anyway, were close enough that a minor disagreement on how they were valued statistically would have made much a of a difference.

But again, it speaks to the makeup of the committee. How much do you want to bet that the mumbling when WAR was brought up was because the members simply didn’t understand those metrics as opposed to those who totally understand them but have decided that they aren’t important? I’m guessing that was the real issue. Just ignorance or discomfort with that stuff so there was a desire to move into what they know.

Which I think matters. It’s totally legitimate to decide, with all of the information at your disposal, that what is truly important are RBIs or character or intangibles or whatever and vote on that basis. But if your committee simply doesn’t understand the state of the art — and not just some nerdy bleeding edge stuff, but the stuff that mainstream analysts and front offices use to evaluate players — they’re pretty unqualified to offer what will be the final assessment on any given player’s merits as a Hall of Famer.

Probably doesn’t matter for the current crop of Veteran’s Committee candidates. But because the BBWAA refuses to vote in so many qualified or borderline guys, they’ll be in front of the Veteran’s Committee one day too. And unless the system becomes transparent and the voters become people who are actually willing and capable to engage in anything beyond the most superficial baseball analysis, they won’t get a fair shake.

  1. Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 11, 2013 at 1:41 PM

    We need to punt WAR and replace with new columns of numeric values for the following criteria:
    1) Grit
    2) Clutch
    3) Fear-inducing
    4) One big F’n moment
    5) Press-friendly
    6) Big Market (+1); Small Market (-1); St. Louis (+3)
    7) Mustache (+1), Handlebars, beard (+2)
    8) Extra grit
    9) Hustle, fake or otherwise
    10) Dirt on Uniform

    And the BBWAA have announced that they have nominated Dustin Pedroia already, making him the first active HOF’er ever.

    • Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 11, 2013 at 1:42 PM

      damn auto-emoticons, NBC! What is this, kindergarten? Messing with a serious posting.

      that should have been
      8 ) Extra grit

      Eight) Extra grit

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Dec 11, 2013 at 1:50 PM

        I was waiting for some crazy acronym that spelled out idiot or something, was still pleasantly surprised.

      • hittfamily - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:01 PM

        No church, that’s the JETER.

        Joy of the game
        Eye candy
        Treasured Memories
        Effortless effort
        Romances with celebrities.

      • raysfan1 - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:07 PM

        Deficiency in Understanding Metrics, Basesball Analysis, and Statistical Significance.

      • hittfamily - Dec 11, 2013 at 3:06 PM

        Winner! ^

    • rbj1 - Dec 11, 2013 at 1:50 PM

      Just go with those who have the best Will to Win.

    • rjsoberanis - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:02 PM

      Excellent list but it’s incomplete by one key metric:

      11) The Will to Win (TWTW)

      • Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:18 PM

        Perfect addition.

        Oh, one more:
        12) Pitching To The Score

      • psousa1 - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:49 PM

        The Jack Morris metric

      • Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:51 PM

        13) Gold Gloves

      • hittfamily - Dec 11, 2013 at 3:09 PM

        14) Sacrificer

    • El Bravo - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:12 PM

      This is the best comment I’ve read in quite some time. Should have it’s own post. Nice work and I’m still chuckling.

      • El Bravo - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM

        3) fear-inducing. HA!

        I assume that is why the Red Sox one the Series only b/c their beards became +10 fear-inducing beards by the WS.

      • El Bravo - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:14 PM

        *won

        ugh

      • Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:17 PM

        El Bravo, thanks. Been telling Craig for years he needs to hire me.

      • Jason @ IIATMS - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:53 PM

        I’m trying to post a link as I wrote it up on my site. itsaboutthemoney [dot] net

        meh

    • psousa1 - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:47 PM

      that was good list (and also true)

    • nothanksimdriving123 - Dec 11, 2013 at 11:02 PM

      You people! Only one stat matters:
      Played the game the RIGHT WAY.

  2. churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Dec 11, 2013 at 1:52 PM

    We could vote for as many as five of the 12 candidates, and it took at least 12 votes, or 75 percent, to gain election.

    Wait a sec, is it always like this? No wonder no one else was elected if 60% of the ballots were already taken up.

    • wogggs - Dec 11, 2013 at 4:16 PM

      Exactly what I thought when I read the article in the paper this morning. Everyone voted for the managers. That left everyone with only 2 votes. No way anyone else was going to get elected. Apparently no one else got more than 6 votes (12 were required for election), but that is not surprising. As ever, an idiotic process for the Hall of Fame.

  3. raysfan1 - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:11 PM

    How it felt to watch a player?! Yeah, watching Ted Simmons play felt like watching the third best catcher in the game at the time…but, Geez, first and second were Bench and Fisk.

  4. scoutsaysweitersisabust - Dec 11, 2013 at 2:26 PM

    “The first part: how sworn to silence the committee members are. Jenkins talks of how unwilling the ex-players, executives and historians would be to participate in the process if their votes or thoughts behind them were.”

    I assume the rest of that sentence was meant to read “made public.”

Leave Comment

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!

Featured video

Ace-killer Giants do it again
Top 10 MLB Player Searches
  1. M. Bumgarner (3422)
  2. J. Shields (2996)
  3. T. Ishikawa (2786)
  4. T. Lincecum (2429)
  5. M. Morse (2345)
  1. L. Cain (2015)
  2. Y. Cespedes (2006)
  3. B. Posey (1870)
  4. B. Roberts (1599)
  5. A. Wainwright (1560)