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Chipper Jones expects “some dumb (bleep)” to leave Maddux off his Hall of Fame ballot

Jan 7, 2014, 8:10 AM EDT

Chipper Jones, who said virtually nothing interesting for the bulk of his playing career, continues to show us that there was some personality underneath all those “yes sirs” and “no sirs”:

 

He’s right of course. Unfortunately, this year, the idiots who don’t think Greg Maddux deserves to be a first-ballot inductee have plausible deniability. Because the ballot is so stocked with worthy candidates, and because Maddux is a shoe-in for induction, there will likely be several people leaving Maddux off for strategic purposes. Specifically, to throw votes to guys who may be at risk of falling below 5% and thus off the ballot. I personally wouldn’t vote that way. Such game theory usually requires others to act rationally in order to be effective and, if we’ve learned anything about the Hall of Fame electorate, it’s a pretty non-rational group of folks. But such a non-vote for Maddux is defensible.

But, unfortunately, it also prevents us from knowing which voters left Maddux off because they believe no one should be a first-ballot inductee if some old timer they liked wasn’t. Which happens every single year.

  1. bfunk1978 - Jan 7, 2014 at 8:14 AM

    Wow, second time in a couple months that Chipper Jones has put together a rational, coherent thought. (most recently previously being Atlanta losing to LA in the NLDS)

    • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:27 AM

      He’s just trying to buy Maddux’s support for when it’s his turn. (And, Larry will NOT be a unanimous 1st rounder.)

      • 18thstreet - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:23 AM

        Is it really supposed to be an insult to call him by his real first name?

        Take that, Ervin Johnson! Ha!

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:25 AM

        It indicates non-fanship. I refuse to be familiar.

      • 18thstreet - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:30 AM

        Good point. That’s why Red Sox fans always refer to George Ruth, Lawrence Berra, Edward Ford, and James Hunter.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:34 AM

        Ooookay…

      • 18thstreet - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:36 AM

        Hey, look — only Hank Aaron’s real friends call him Henry. It’s those of us who don’t know the guy who call him Hank. Just think: you might have this backwards and you’re showing how close the two of you really are.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:38 AM

        You’ll never convince his fanboys.

      • Kevin S. - Jan 7, 2014 at 3:21 PM

        I thought it was just something Met fans mocked him with after Mike Piazza said he refused to call a grown man “Chipper.”

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 4:16 PM

        That could be their reason. I do my own thing.

    • mick2014 - Jan 7, 2014 at 4:48 PM

      Maddux is not 1st ballot quality because he let the Cubs down in the 1989 NLCS. If he would have won a few games in that series he would have been a 1st ballot guy.

      • bfunk1978 - Jan 8, 2014 at 11:15 AM

        Completely irrational.

  2. Ayana Rashed - Jan 7, 2014 at 8:25 AM

    Reblogged this on Imarashed.

  3. nymets4ever - Jan 7, 2014 at 8:30 AM

    It’s shoo-in not shoe-in

  4. southofheaven81 - Jan 7, 2014 at 8:38 AM

    I KNOW IT’s a long-shot, but I just have a gut feeling that no one gets in again this year, and Verducci & company’s excuses are going to become that much more pathetic & impossible to justify.

    • Rich Stowe - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:27 AM

      also, any player that was on the ballot for the 2013 ballot, would be at 16 ballots for our Hall of Fame right now (Piazza, Schilling etc) if they didn’t gain induction already (Biggio and Bagwell gained induction on their 10th and 11th ballots I believe and are not on the current ballot for our Hall of Fame)

      Any player new on the ballot in 2014 (Maddux, Mussina etc) are appearing on our ballots for the 1st time.

    • dcfan4life - Jan 7, 2014 at 6:25 PM

      No one in their right mind believes Maddux doesnt get in, its whether or not he breaks the percentage record. Cmon, troll elsewhere.

  5. Rich Stowe - Jan 7, 2014 at 8:51 AM

    The IBWAA released their HOF class yesterday, and out of 113 voters, 111 voted for Maddux, meaning 2 people left him off their ballots.

    I firmly believe Maddux will not receive 100% of the vote – either from the blank ballots some voters cast, the “no one is first ballot HOFer”, or simply because as Craig said some voters will throw their votes to other players such as Kent or Mussina that risk dropping off this stacked ballot.

    However, we at Sports Unbiased released our 2014 Induction Class and Maddux did receive 100% of the vote: http://sportsunbiased.com/mlb/22755/mlb-hall-of-fame-2014-class-greg-maddux-su-hof/

    • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:19 AM

      1 vote for Mussina, and 16 for Morris? 1 vote for Frank Thomas and 16 for Lee Smith?

      • Rich Stowe - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:39 AM

        no, those numbers were the number of ballots each player had appeared on….Morris was on his 16th ballot for our site while Mussina was on his first…

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:02 AM

        Huh? Are you saying that’s years on the ballot? Because then why do Piazza and (2nd) and Schilling (1st) have 16 as well? Regardless, Smith received 36% of the vote and Morris 27%, still more than Mussina’s 18%.

      • Rich Stowe - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:25 AM

        Yes, that is years on teh ballot. for the Sports Unbiased Hall of Fame, we voted on all players currently in the Hall of Fame, and currently on the ballot, and have gone through 16 ballots of voting. In our hall of fame, the ballot a player is inducted on matters – so there is a difference between first ballot and second etc. Also, we vote yes, no or later. Yes means induct on the current ballot (so a player would be 1st ballot, 16th ballot, etc), no means never induct, and later means induct the player on a later ballot – so for mussina he may have only received 18% yes votes which meant 18 percent believed he was a first ballot Hall of FAmer, but if you look at his later % that will tell you how many other writers believe he is a Hall of Famer, just on a later ballot (his second, or third etc). You need to compare the yes, no and later percentages between players, not just the Yes %

  6. chacochicken - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:04 AM

  7. yahmule - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:26 AM

    Anyone who leaves Maddux off their ballot for any reason is an arrogant asshole.

    • paperlions - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:04 AM

      That is a myopic and arrogant thing to say, just because you fail to understand that any vote past 75% has no value to Maddux, but such votes would have value to deserving players that may fall off of a bloated list of HOF worthy players doesn’t mean that it isn’t so.

      There is no way that the enough HOF voters will employ game theory to deny Maddux his HOF entry, the electorate is too simple for that. Recognizing that fact allows those that are willing to make more valuable use of their votes to do so….and no, it is not arrogance, just recognition of the parameters of the process and the value of votes.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:22 AM

        Good morning, Grumplestiltskins. I have a present for you:

        http://www.cbsnews.com/news/group-unveils-plans-for-satan-statue-at-okla-capitol/

        Cheer up. Also, why do you hate Maddux? Whyyyyyyyyyyyy??????

      • paperlions - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:39 AM

        That is hilarious. Though calling the Church of the FSM satirical is uncalled for. I guess it does differ from other churches in that it is not a socio-political structure designed specifically to accumulate wealth and power, but calling it satirical seems harsh.

        Maddux was a Cub. I hate the cubs.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:42 AM

        I looooooove Maddux. And, that is completely apart from the team he played for that I HATE. Maybe you should climb up in Satan’s lap and reconsider your position there.

      • paperlions - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:47 AM

        Yes, rise up against tyranny!

      • paperlions - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:40 AM

        Also. Yesterday morning it was 55. All of our snow melted. This morning it was 5.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:54 AM

        It was 8 here this am but it’s supposed to get to 40 later. This weekend we might get to 60. We got snow two days ago. It’s not so much winter as weather whiplash.

      • yahmule - Jan 7, 2014 at 12:33 PM

        What you fail to understand is arrogant assholes who decided they wanted to be heroes instead of doing their ****ing jobs caused this problem. Now another collection of arrogant assholes think they’re going to fix it. What a bunch of clowns.

      • paperlions - Jan 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM

        I was going to say that arrogance didn’t cause this problem (which doesn’t really have an easy fix), but ignorance. But you are right because the ignorance largely is a result of arrogance….the assumption that they already know everything they need to know and didn’t need to learn anything new after turning 30 or so.

        Really though, I think it is the very poorly designed process for awarding votes that is the root of the problem. There are a LOT of voters that don’t cover baseball or have never covered baseball. Giving members a vote for life was always a dumb idea, now that people don’t die until they are 90, it has just gotten worse.

  8. stoutfiles - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:28 AM

    He’s going to the Hall this year, does it really matter how many votes he get? Do they put “Received ___ of ___ votes” next to his name? As long as you get enough to be first ballot, then that’s all that matters.

  9. shyts7 - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:31 AM

    Anyone who leaves Maddux off the ballot for any reason should never be able to vote ever again. To say that he is not a 1st ballot HOF just proves that you know absolutely nothing about baseball. Maddux, with his accomplishments and longevity, is probably the greatest pitcher of the last 30 years. The only other person I believe you could argue is Pedro.

    • cardinalcrazy - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:04 AM

      I would argue Randy Johnson over Pedro Martinez. And I’m borderline with Johnson over Maddux. Both were such great pitchers.

      • shyts7 - Jan 7, 2014 at 2:33 PM

        I would say Johnson is top 5, but, if you look at the stats Maddux’s is a tad bit better.

    • 18thstreet - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:25 AM

      Your use of “first ballot HOF” displays your own ignorance. There’s nothing in the rules that makes such a distinction.

      • shyts7 - Jan 7, 2014 at 2:36 PM

        Sigh. Here we go again with another guy who does not know what he is talking about. If you are elected on your first try, you are the best of the best. There can’t be anything in the rules because everyone gets multiple attempts. To say that Maddux is not among the most elite of the elite pitchers of all time is just plain wrong. Please go troll somewhere else.

  10. drewzducks - Jan 7, 2014 at 9:57 AM

    Leave Murray Chass alone.

  11. karlkolchak - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:02 AM

    “But, unfortunately, it also prevents us from knowing which voters left Maddux off because they believe no one should be a first-ballot inductee if some old timer they liked wasn’t.”

    You can bet the voters in question also used to wear an onion on their belt–which was the style at the time.

  12. xdj511 - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:06 AM

    If it was only one dumb bleep Maddux would still have the highest electoral percentage in history. Chances are it will be several dumb bleeps.

  13. aboutamoo - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:18 AM

    I disagree that a non-vote for Maddux is defensible. Withhold a vote from Glavine or the Big Hurt. Those guys are sailing in too, and you can at least craft a baseball-related reason (albeit a flimsy as hell one) that they didn’t get your vote.

  14. indaburg - Jan 7, 2014 at 10:47 AM

    I see Chipper’s point. At the same time, as long as Maddux gets in, the majority of the voters got it right. That’s something we can’t say for many players on the ballot.

    As for Chipper, we’d probably trade blows talking politics, but I find him very entertaining. Especially when he’s putting together basketball hoops.

    • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 11:28 AM

      Agreed. I love to hate him and will be sad if he fades away. It’s like being part of Hater Nation. In this case, Larry is right. Yeah, it burns.

    • unclemosesgreen - Jan 7, 2014 at 11:34 AM

      I think what you’re saying here is that you like listening to him as long as you can see him saying what you’re hearing. ;)

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 11:51 AM

        I’m pretty sure if there’s a hell, it’s a date with Larry. Revelations 26:11, “And the beast smote them and threw them into an everlasting fire. But others were condemned to Applebee’s 2 for $20 with Larry Jones. The Lord is God and his judgments [are] wrath.”

      • unclemosesgreen - Jan 7, 2014 at 11:56 AM

        That’s so like you – misquoting the Bible. I memorized that passage and they call him Chipper.

        I guess that’s what happens when you sit on Satan’s lap.

      • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 12:00 PM

        I’m pretty sure your heat zone experience was having Satan on yours.

      • unclemosesgreen - Jan 7, 2014 at 12:07 PM

        My lap is his one true throne. He sits here for inspiration and contemplation.

    • unclemosesgreen - Jan 7, 2014 at 11:41 AM

      I’m honestly a little surprised that you’re so entertained by our national director of Rio Grande border security.

      • indaburg - Jan 7, 2014 at 3:30 PM

        We can agree on baseball and disagree on the Rio Grande (although I bet our opinions even on that have some common ground), and where to put a ladder when building a basketball hoop. I happen to find his opinions on baseball kinda refreshing.

      • unclemosesgreen - Jan 7, 2014 at 3:34 PM

        Did I persuade you even slightly on the possible goodness of the Heath Bell signing? I’m planning to bid for his services in my salary keeper league. Y’know, provided the floating carpets don’t re-sign Rodney, that is.

        Do you get to keep Paco Rodriguez? He was a very good late season pickup for you as I recall.

      • indaburg - Jan 7, 2014 at 4:40 PM

        Our league was not a keeper league and currently, I don’t know if it even exists.

        I looked at Bell’s peripherals and there’s reason for optimism. His BABIP was above his career norm, as was his HR/9–way, way above. His FIP last year gives me pause. 4.25. Then again, fielding can’t help you jack if the balls are being hit in the stands. He hasn’t lost much velocity. If Hickey can work his magic and Rodney isn’t signed, he’ll be a nice cheap closer fantasy pick-up. Damn, I miss baseball so much.

      • unclemosesgreen - Jan 7, 2014 at 4:51 PM

        Me too – started prepping for my league’s auction already – it’s in the end of March.

  15. unclemosesgreen - Jan 7, 2014 at 11:38 AM

    I’ve been the HOF twice yet I had no idea there were distinctions other than IN or OUT of the HOF. Never saw a % on a statue.

    Best exhibit – Ted Williams’ heat zone. I stared at it so long my buddy thought I was having an acid flashback.

  16. randygnyc - Jan 7, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    Yahmule- you have a disgusting, vulgar mouth. Every post is filled with profanity. Typical liberal rage.

    • historiophiliac - Jan 7, 2014 at 4:22 PM

      *cough* Richard Nixon *cough*

      Hello, randy.

    • detectivejimmymcnulty - Jan 7, 2014 at 5:33 PM

      I have one of the most vulgar mouths you’ll come across, and I’m not a liberal. I’m not sure how vulgar language = liberal.

  17. Patrick - Jan 7, 2014 at 3:46 PM

    It has already happened.

    Ken Gurnick (Dodgers beat reporter) voted for Jack Morris and only Jack Morris. His argument, “As for those who played during the period of PED use, I won’t vote for any of them.”

    Rob Neyer mentioned it here: http://www.baseballnation.com/2014/1/7/5284256/hall-fame-ballot-ken-gurnick-worst-ever-voting

    Ballot published at MLB.com here: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/how-mlbcom-writers-voted-in-hall-of-fame-balloting?ymd=20140106&content_id=66341930&vkey=news_mlb

  18. snarkk - Jan 8, 2014 at 1:38 PM

    The HOF voting is now officially a joke. It is near meaningless. A HOF without Bonds or Clemens, but with Biggio (deserving IMO), is ridiculous on its face. Anybody voted IN now means those writers voting for him believe he did NOT use PEDs. But, they don’t KNOW he did NOT use PEDs. Nobody can know, other than the player himself. None of these writers has ESP, so it is only an assumption that Maddux and Glavine and Frank Thomas and anybody else that gets in did NOT use PEDs. Not to mention, many of these “writers” had to know or suspect that from the late ’80s on, guys were PEDsing all over MLB. Yet, they did nothing. Didn’t investigate, didn’t ask questions, no major articles revealing anything. Now, they’re blackballing “dirty” players. Absolute hypocrisy. A total joke…

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