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The Cleveland Plain Dealer comes out strongly against Chief Wahoo

Feb 28, 2014, 1:20 PM EDT

indians block c logo

The Cleveland Plain Dealer, for the first time, has published an editorial calling for the Indians to get rid of Chief Wahoo. After noting that the team didn’t bring the old neon Wahoo sign from Municipal Stadium 20 years ago, thus suggesting that even the team feels Wahoo is unacceptable to some degree, the paper calls for the Indians to go further:

Just as that giant graphic image was retired from the line-up, smaller ones should be, too. That includes Wahoo-adorned promotions at the ballpark and small Wahoo patches worn on some of the players’ hats and sleeves. A demeaning symbol is a demeaning symbol, regardless of degree.

And then, after addressing the fans’ attachment, notes that doing the right thing is necessary, even if it tramples on nostalgia:

The bottom line is that having Wahoo on the roster won’t provide the team with a right-handed power hitter, a shutdown closer or a third baseman who can hit. Wahoo contributes nothing to the performance of the Indians on the field, and makes the team seem hopelessly backward in the eyes of the world.

One day, the Indians will say goodbye to Wahoo. It’s inevitable. And it’s a little unsettling that it hasn’t happened by now. Why cling to Wahoo when it so clearly offends?

This, I feel, is significant. It’s one thing for random people like me to call for the end of Wahoo, but for the largest newspaper in the city and the state to come out with an official editorial and to plainly call it racist is something else.

The Indians, though they won’t admit it, are clearly diminishing Wahoo’s role in the team’s iconography. Here’s hoping this official disapprobation hastens the process.

116 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:24 PM

    I at least acknowledge that changing the Redskins team name is a fairly big undertaking….but eliminating an offensive mascot is not.

    There’s no reason for this to be an issue. It’s a source of shame not pride.

    • cohnjusack - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:27 PM

      Yeah, when has a DC based sports team ever had to change their name due to controversy? Seems like an impossible task!

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:42 PM

        So, it would take an act of Congress?

      • Dino Fire - Mar 3, 2014 at 12:38 PM

        Washington Bullets –> Washington Wizards. Changed for obvious political sensitivity reasons.

  2. 18thstreet - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:24 PM

    But I’m 1/16 Cherokee!

    • yahmule - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:41 PM

      Daniel Snyder on line one. He would like you to wear a jacket with lots of fringe on it and read a prepared statement.

      • tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:44 PM

        He also wants to know if you mind breaking your nose a couple times and getting a John Boehner tan.

      • 18thstreet - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:01 PM

        Sorry, I’ve been outranked by the guy below who said he’s 1/4th Seminole. Move along.

    • El Bravo - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:01 PM

      Did you apply to Dartmouth? That coulda landed you a free ride. I’m 1/32 so they told me to G.F.Y.

  3. 1943mrmojorisin1971 - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:31 PM

    Teams change logos all the time for marketing reasons to a lot less fanfare than this.

  4. packerblitz - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:33 PM

    I’m so tired of this PC nonsense. Why is his a HUGE problem all of sudden? Maybe its cuz I’m white and I “don’t get it” but what am I missing about this logo?

    • 1943mrmojorisin1971 - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:37 PM

      http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/08/im-guessing-you-wouldnt-wear-a-new-york-jews-or-san-francisco-chinamen-cap/

      • thebadguyswon - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:54 PM

        I still want to know where I can get a Chinamen hat.

      • dparker713 - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

        The Jews cap would be the most popular clothing item in Bushwick.

    • yahmule - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:39 PM

      What are you missing about that grinning Red Sambo, what indeed?

    • tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:55 PM

      It’s not “maybe” cuz you’re white.

      It’s because you’re white.

      No one cares how you feel unless you’re supportive of people it DOES affect.

      People who whine about things being “PC” don’t understand why it’s important because it doesn’t actually affect them.

      • bigharold - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:30 PM

        “People who whine about things being “PC” don’t understand why it’s important because it doesn’t actually affect them.”

        Not so fast. Because one doesn’t agree, whether it affects then or not, doesn’t mean political correctness hasn’t gone too far. In this case I think it has. I get the need to change things like the Redskin’s name but in the case of Chief Wahoo I think that’s a stretch. It’s a cartoon character icon of an American Indian. In and of itself is no more offensive than the cartoon icon leprechaun for Notre Dame. I’m Irish and I don’t find that offensive. Because the image is one of an American Indian doesn’t automatically make it offensive. And, spare me all the stuff about what happened to native American Indians once Europeans found North America and how oppressed they were. The English were in Ireland ding their best to extinguish Irish people and culture for 500 years before North America was discovered and they’re still there now. But because it was one white Christian culture taking advantage of another no one really cares.

        Not every little perceived slight or insensitivity is deserving of righteous indignation, .. certainly not Chief Wahoo. Lets save our energy for those things that are.

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

        For like the one billionth time, the Irish Leprechaun is not a representation of all Irish people — it is a figure from Irish folklore (like fairies and gnomes or something). It isn’t a negative depiction of actual people. Chief Wahoo is an insulting image of Indian leaders generally. It is derogatory towards them. And, you don’t have to go back to colonization to find ways in which Indians have been discriminated against. The Indians have been a team LONGER than Native Americans have had legal citizenship in the US. The poorest counties in the country remain predominately inhabited by Native Americans. As Chris Rock noted: You can go into restaurants in New York and see at least one black person or an Asian but you don’t see a family of Indians at a table.

      • bigharold - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:28 PM

        “.. the Irish Leprechaun is not a representation of all Irish people..”

        Correct, nor is Chief Wahoo isn’t a representation of American Indians either, .. it’s a cartoon Character. Because, if something refers to American Indians doesn’t automatically make it offensive. By that logic, any image or reference to Native American’s would automatically be offensive if they were done buy anyone other than native Americans. Think about the number of business’ in this country not owned buy Native American’s that have Native American references, .. are they too offensive? I think the people at places like say, .. Mohegan Sun Casino would beg to differ.

        “The Indians have been a team LONGER than Native Americans have had legal citizenship in the US…. Chris Rock noted: You can go into restaurants in New York and see at least one black person or an Asian but you don’t see a family of Indians at a table.”

        Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with this debate in general or my suggestion that Chief Wahoo, a cartoon representation, is fairly benign. Personally, I couldn’t care less if the Indians keep the logo or not but Chief Wahoo is a cartoon character that does, in my opinion, does no more harm to American Indians than Wiley Coyote does to coyotes and is worthy of about the same scrutiny.

      • packerblitz - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:35 PM

        Chill out you self-righteous liberal. It’s just a cartoon character!

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

        Chief Wahoo is not based on a cartoon figure that Indians use (like the leprechaun is by Irish people) — he is a cartoon made by white people lampooning Native Americans. It isn’t a drawing that is designed to make Indians look noble or good. I guarantee if one of the clubs used one of those old cartoons of Irish people as apes for a mascot, Irish-American clubs would complain. Also, you said not to give you a bunch of stuff about how the Indians’ land was taken from them and all that, so I was pointing out to you that the disadvantages and discrimination continues. You don’t have to go back 100 years to find examples of Native Americans getting a raw deal. Also, I’d like to note that the Mohegan Sun Casino is owned by the Mohegan tribe, and comparing Indians to coyotes is insulting too.

      • chinahand11 - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:04 PM

        I’m really upset that there are no leprechauns. Other than that, Native American is not the correct name for the indigenous people of this continent. First American is the appropriate term; anyone born in America is a Native American. But it is not PC to say First American I suppose. No one says it. Oh by the way, a First American college professor stated that.

      • tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

        Re: The Notre Dame Leprechaun….

        When Irish people start complaining, then they have a very valid point and the issue should be addressed.

        Until someone takes an issue with it, it’s not an issue.

        Either way, George Carlin put the issue to bed:
        Being Irish, I guess I should resent the Notre Dame nickname, “The Fighting Irish.” After all, how long do you think nicknames like “The Bargaining Jews” or “The Murdering Italians” would last? Only the ironic Irish could be so naively honest. I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real close to naming itself “The F****n’ Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish.”

      • bigharold - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:28 PM

        “Chief Wahoo i… is a cartoon made by white people lampooning Native Americans.”

        It is a cartoon character, .. just like the belligerent leprechaun. It is by it’s very nature not an accurate representation of Native Americans. If I were inclined to be ruthlessly PC I could very easily see the worst in the Notre Dame mascot.

        “I’d like to note that the Mohegan Sun Casino is owned by the Mohegan tribe,..”

        They are part owner not the sole owner. My point was/is that there are literally tens of thousands of business’ throughout the country that have Indian names. Are they automatically offensive?? You are suggesting that they be changed as well?

        “.. and comparing Indians to coyotes is insulting too.”

        That’s not my comparison. Try reading it again, .. if you still don’t get it, .. I can’t help you. You’re on your own.

      • bigharold - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:38 PM

        “..I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real close to naming itself “The F****n’ Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish.””

        Frankly, I never though it of it that way. Which is good because I’m laughing so hard right now I think my head is going to explode.

      • churchoftheperpetuallyoutraged - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:40 PM

        It’s a cartoon character icon of an American Indian. In and of itself is no more offensive than the cartoon icon leprechaun for Notre Dame. I’m Irish and I don’t find that offensive.

        One giant issue that hasn’t been brought up yet. The people of south bend, along with many of the college students, who were all mostly of Irish descent, choose the current mascot for ND. I’m almost positive the Indians didn’t get approval for their mascot from the local Native American tribe.

      • bigharold - Feb 28, 2014 at 6:08 PM

        “The people of south bend, along with many of the college students, who were all mostly of Irish descent, choose the current mascot for ND.”

        That is just not true. Notre Dame wasn’t an Irish school so much as it was a Catholic school. Yes, Notre Dame did eventually adopt the Fighting Irish and subsequently leprechaun mascot but the University is not predominately Irish now and I doubt that it was when they actually adopted it. Regardless, there is absolutely no way to confirm what you are saying.

        http://www.und.com/trads/nd-m-fb-name.html

        As to whether “the Indians” approved of the Cleavland baseball teams name, .. you’re likely right but so what? Unless one thinks that the cartoon mascot it and was inherently offensive that really doesn’t matter.

      • tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 6:28 PM

        I guess it comes down to if you feel you are part of the joke and can laugh at yourself or if you feel you are the butt of the joke and don’t like the abuse.

        The Irish like the joke the Native Americans don’t.

      • tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 6:34 PM

        And, also….I could be wrong but I don’t think Notre Dame’s mascot is dubbed Drunken Mick.

    • gigab0t - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:19 PM

      Idiot.

    • yab1sh - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:30 PM

      C’mon now Packer. PC died a long time ago. We’ve moved well into “groupthink” at this point…

      • asimonetti88 - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:17 PM

        Reading the comments on A-Rod articles, I can’t necessarily disagree with you.

    • cohnjusack - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:29 PM

      Here’s is what your missing. Native Americans don’t actually have cherry red faces and wear huge feathers while smiling like maniacs. It’s a racist caricature that doesn’t seem that bad because you’re used to it.

      • tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:49 PM

        He’s not smiling like a maniac.

        He’s smiling like that because he’s drunk.

        You know, like all Indians.

        Plus that makes his face redder.

        So it’s a perfectly acceptable caricature….I mean “cartoon”.

    • chunkala - Feb 28, 2014 at 6:24 PM

      No, you’re just fine and in the right.
      There’s a statute of limitations that has passed way long ago in terms of all this Native America PC nonsense.

      • tfbuckfutter - Feb 28, 2014 at 6:35 PM

        IMHO Native Americans lost the right to complain about anything when they never returned those blankets we LOANED them.

    • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:14 PM

      “Maybe its cuz I’m white and I “don’t get it”…

      George Bush Jr. is blogging with us!

      • Sign Ahead - Mar 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM

        “Political correctness!”
        “It’s just a cartoon.”
        (Free Space)
        “You self-righteous liberal!”
        “White people suffer discrimination too.”

        Bingo! I have bingo!

  5. zemensd - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:34 PM

    It seems like theyve been gradually eliminating it for some time. The move to the block C has really taken any emphasis on Chief Wahoo away. Getting rid of secondary logo issues at this point would seem minimal.

    • asimonetti88 - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:18 PM

      I think everyone, on both sides of the Chief Wahoo thing, should at least be able to agree that they should choose something at least more fun than the Block C.

  6. hojo20 - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:35 PM

    I’d sure the Plain Dealer’s 13 subscribers don’t care what the opinion is.

    • happytwinsfan - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:52 PM

      so they have fewer subscribers then they have Pulitzer Prizes? that’s a shame.

  7. kopy - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:38 PM

    Out with Chief Wahoo, In with Ten Cent Beer Night!

  8. sdelmonte - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:46 PM

    An acquaintance from the Cleveland area once noted that he finds the Plain-Dealer to be rather conservative, so for it to take this stance is a big thing.

    • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:18 PM

      Yup.

  9. mikhelb - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:48 PM

    i am thankful that the Rays decided to change their name and logo because the unfairly labeled all rays as evil, i share part of my genome with Rays so i found that offensive.

    Same thing with the Marlins getting rid of that logo in their uniforms, as an oceanographer i find offensive to use a protected species (in my country) as a logo.

    and the Dodgers? oh my oh my, are they rejoicing in the fact that people who were poor had to dodge trains in Brooklyn? WOW what an offense!

    Oh I forgot: the Yankees???!! puh-lease! that name?! ugh… O-F-F-E-N-S-I-V-E to the 8th potency.

    • themanytoolsofignorance - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:00 PM

      Because those things are exactly the same as a racist caricature logo depicting a group of people nearly wiped out by invaders

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:05 PM

        Dangit, I wanted to answer first! >:(

      • themanytoolsofignorance - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:07 PM

        busy gazing at Ausmus, were you?

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM

        Dreamy eyes? Check.
        Sense of humor? Check.
        Thoughtful guy? Check.
        Rope and handcuffs? Check.

        Oops!

      • themanytoolsofignorance - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:12 PM

        SECURITY!

      • doctorofsmuganomics - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:27 PM

        He won’t last more than a year, just to inconvenience you and craig.

    • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:04 PM

      Not funny.

    • karlkolchak - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

      I regret that I have but one down vote to bestow upon this idiotic post.

    • asimonetti88 - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:19 PM

      If the Marlins were attempting to make their logo less offensive, they failed miserably.

    • cohnjusack - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:32 PM

      Ummm, that isn’t why the name Devil Rays was changed, but if that helps justify your opinion, go for it I guess.

      I love it when people make the nonsense slippery slope arguments. “Oh, well, where does it stop then!” Well, probably pretty far from the Marlins logo, less marlins become self-aware, rise up and are able to take offense to sports logos. In which case, their complain will be wholly valid.

      • shadowcell - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:45 PM

        I dunno, if I were a marlin suddenly given human intelligence, only to find that the professional baseball team named after my species is terrible and owned by a con artist, I’d probably be crankier about that than the name and logo.

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

        If marlins actually rose up to revolt against their namesake, I’m pretty sure it would be to drag Loria out to a slow, painful death at sea. Perhaps we should donate more money to aquatic research…

    • chinahand11 - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:07 PM

      Hey mikhelb! Rays ARE evil. Where you been?

  10. eagles512 - Feb 28, 2014 at 1:49 PM

    Wahoo is great. Bring it back fully.

    • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:38 PM

      I notice that 2 of the 3 people who seem to like keeping the mascot appear to have football-related handles. If you are a football fan, why are you here instead of PFT?

      • yahmule - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:52 PM

        It is true that Ed “Wahoo” McDaniel was cool as hell.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahoo_McDaniel

      • packerblitz - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:51 PM

        Whoa, hold on a sec! Are you saying football fans are not allowed to be at HBT?? Wow, you sure don’t make us feel like equals!

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM

        /spits drink

        Honey, we aren’t equals. Run along. You won’t see me over there.

      • grumpyoleman - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

        People can understand and appreciate more than one sport.

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

        I appreciate other sports — I love the biathlon. Did you catch any of that on the Olympics? Great stuff. I was so happy for the Swedish women. I watch a little college football during the fall and sometimes a soccer match. I don’t talk about those on HBT really and I never go to the other sports with a baseball handle and insist on butting in.

        PS I understand football just fine. It remains a lesser sport, however — like dodgeball.

      • koufaxmitzvah - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:43 PM

        That would be Dodgeball on the Ocho.

      • jm91rs - Mar 1, 2014 at 11:44 AM

        You try too hard to seperate fans. Some of us can’t get through November, dec, jan and feb without another sport to waste our time

      • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:23 PM

        It’s a man’s world, but it wouldn’t be worth NUTHIN’ without a woman or a girl.

    • DJ MC - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:27 PM

      It’s still there, 30 miles west of Omaha. Never left.

  11. doctorofsmuganomics - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:08 PM

    Wahoo isn’t even that good of a logo, what’s the deal.

  12. florida76 - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:31 PM

    How many historically black colleges use slurs or demeaning nicknames for their sports programs? I can’t think of any, but Red Mesa High School, located on a Navajo reservation, has been called the Redskins for many years. How could this possibly happen, if we all know such a nickname is wrong? Wouldn’t the last school on this planet calling themselves Redskins, be a Native American school?

    And that’s the disconnect between the people pushing this issue, with their own political agendas, and the actual people involved. Why don’t we see the people wanting a change conduct a Native American poll to support their agenda? The anti indian logo folks are quick to criticize older polls because they don’t like the results. Wouldn’t that strengthen their case, or are they reluctant, because the numbers may again be heavily on the other side?

    How about an honest discussion between Native Americans who care about this issue, since they are the ones directly involved here? Those against, and how long they have actually felt that way, talking with those who are taking money for using a nickname, people who like a noble depiction of a logo, and those who simply don’t care.

    • themanytoolsofignorance - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:39 PM

      Thats funny. I was assured by my head of sales, who happens to be African American, that her people refer to each other with a certain racial slur all of the time. She then pointed out that when they do it it is as equals. When the white folk do it, it is as an insult. nuance can be tricky if you never think beyond your own group

    • shadowcell - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:02 PM

      Why are you weighing the Native Americans who haven’t voiced opposition to it more than the ones who have?

      You don’t want “an honest discussion between Native Americans who care about this issue” because you’ve already dismissed one side of it out of hand.

      • grumpyoleman - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:16 PM

        Or the majority that don’t wan’t it changed don’t care enough to go screaming on the roof tops that they don’t want it changed. You shouldn’t dismiss the majority either.

    • chinahand11 - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:15 PM

      This is very similar to the NFL wanting to penalize players who use the n-word. A bunch of white guys deciding on that issue does not make good sense. There are no people of color on the rules committee. So let’s ask the First Americans, ALL of them, if Chief Wahoo and the Washington name are okay. Oh, and the Cleveland moniker too, why hasn’t someone made an issue of this? It has to be on someone’s list of things to do.

      • asimonetti88 - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:42 PM

        “There are no people of color on the rules committee.”

        That is not entirely true. Marvin Lewis, Ozzie Newsome and Mike Tomlin are all on the NFL’s competition committee.

      • chinahand11 - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:53 PM

        I stand corrected, thank you and my apologies to all.

      • asimonetti88 - Feb 28, 2014 at 6:05 PM

        I was actually surprised to find it out. I agree with your overall point though

    • jwbiii - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:53 PM

      florida76, Would the opposition of the National Congress of American Indians change your mind?

      http://www.ncai.org/

      • jwbiii - Feb 28, 2014 at 6:28 PM

        Those against, and how long they have actually felt that way

        A reasonable question. Here’s your answer.

        Since 1968, with the establishment of an organizational campaign to end harmful stereotypes, NCAI has contributed to the development of a diverse and large coalition of institutions over the last 45 years, including tribal governments and tribal members, all of whom support the elimination of stereotypical Native American images and team names.

        http://www.ncai.org/attachments/PolicyPaper_mijApMoUWDbjqFtjAYzQWlqLdrwZvsYfakBwTHpMATcOroYolpN_NCAI_Harmful_Mascots_Report_Ending_the_Legacy_of_Racism_10_2013.pdf

  13. bat42boy - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:36 PM

    Another good reason not to read that rag they call a newspaper. They should just shut up and stop making news but report news that is really important.

    • tedwmoore - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:47 PM

      Yes, newspapers should stop writing editorials. Wow.

    • raysfan1 - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:52 PM

      Yeah! Down with editorial pages!! Reputable newspapers don’t have editorial pages or offer commentary!! Down with blogs too! Such a stupid name; besides, who are they to offer opinions that I might not agree with!
      /sarcasm

    • DJ MC - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:30 PM

      Which conservative website did you get that opinion from?

      • raysfan1 - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM

        I’m a conservative. The word is not synonymous with ignorance or bigotry. (There are many who are more properly labelled as reactionaries who unfortunately call themselves conservatives.)

    • tedwmoore - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:45 PM

      Also, “Shut up and talk about only the things I want you to talk about”, said every bully ever.

    • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:25 PM

      And some wonder why I continue to say Republicans are the epitome of stupid.

      • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:26 PM

        Meant “reactionaries”. Apologies to Conservatives without a pea brain.

  14. buggsinaz - Feb 28, 2014 at 2:48 PM

    Come ON!!! This PC BS is going too far!!!! Baseball is a game of Traditions. No one crabbed at the logo at the inception of the Indians. I’m 1/4 Seminole and I find it an honor! After all, Whites were the REAL bad guys, stealing the land, bringing disease, wiping out an entire lifestyle. I’m glad there are team names and logos to remind Americans of the 1st REAL Americans, caricatures or not. Get over it all & play ball!!!

    • 18thstreet - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:06 PM

      He’s right. It’s all been downhill since baseball banned the tradition of pitchers throwing underhand, or throwing from 50 feet, or players leaving their gloves on the field when they were up to bat, or the spitball, or segregation, or not using batting helmets, or teams West of St. Louis, or teams South of St. Louis, or unpadded outfield walls, or extra rounds of playoffs, or the DH, or allowing catchers to block home plate. /s

      Traditions change. And saying something should stay because it’s a tradition is pathetic. Chief Wahoo is a stupid, racist tradition.

      • buggsinaz - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:12 PM

        Take out the segregation thing, and teams west and south of SL, and the rest sounds good to me!!!

    • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

      Yes, white people are so evil that’s why we name so much after them. Go, Fighting Alexander Hamiltons!

      /eye roll

      • dcarroll73 - Mar 1, 2014 at 10:30 AM

        Trust me, when it comes to MLB, it’s ALL about the Hamiltons.

      • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:27 PM

        Bud Weiser.

    • raysfan1 - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

      Good for you that you are 1/4 Seminole. I’m part Miami myself (the tribe from Ohio). You know what that really makes us? Mostly white. Don’t get me wrong; I am very proud of my heritage, but I cannot claim the same experiences as someone whose racial identity is Native American.

      For myself, I don’t really have a problem with a team’s name. However, Chief Wahoo is obviously mouthing but the Native American version of the “black sambo” imagery that virtually everyone acknowledges is racist. I am not offended by it because it takes a lot more than an idiotic cartoon to hurt my feelings. However, I will not hesitate to call it idiotic as I just did.

      As far as honors go, this is not an effort to recall the indomitable spirit of the Native American. It is also not an honor in the way that the Spokane Salish, or the Florida State Seminoles or Central Michigan Chippewas try to.

      • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

        Ok, here’s what I really don’t get: why is it BS to ask people to use their best manners? Dismissing a position because it’s “PC” is the worst reason ever, I think. Asking people to be considerate of others’ feelings and respectful of them as people is both civilized and reasonable to me. Can you explain what’s so bad about that? The anti-PC argument strikes me as being in the same vein as the being-gay-is-wrong argument. My initial reaction is always: So.

      • raysfan1 - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

        Ummm, no, I can’t explain it. Politeness is not the same as PC although some try to use it that way, in trying to deride people’s I distance at using politeness. PC is actually the term for an extreme viewpoint in which if one does not agree with the “politically correct” viewpoint, then one is excluded from whatever group/function. Wanting to do away with racially insensitive iconography is not something that should be derided as PC.

      • raysfan1 - Mar 1, 2014 at 1:06 PM

        One correction…the Spokane minor league team is the Spokane Indians; its patch is in the Salish language, which is what I meant to say. Poor editing on my part, sorry.

  15. keltictim - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:15 PM

    Keep him or get rid of him. Doesn’t affect my life so I could care less, HOWEVER, the little girl spewing such sportist language against football fans is downright despicable. This is 2014 there is no need for such fan on fan discrimination. You should be ashamed of yourself little girl. Now go sit in a corner and think about what you’ve done while I order your gift basket.

    • historiophiliac - Feb 28, 2014 at 4:08 PM

      Dude, I do the spanking around here. Where’s that chicken?

  16. panamajimmy54 - Feb 28, 2014 at 3:20 PM

    It is obvious they are sliding the Chief out..I always thought he was cool. If you honored the lands forefathers with a lame pale face non smiling facsimile he would,nt be as cool..I grew up in Cleveland we were taunt to respect races of all colors,If he is gone, lets go back to the Cleveland Bulldogs at least we could have a cool logo…

  17. Robert - Feb 28, 2014 at 5:41 PM

    Cleveland Bravehearts 2015!

  18. idolized1 - Feb 28, 2014 at 7:33 PM

    I hate white people.

    • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:29 PM

      Is that you Adolph?

  19. hockeyflow33 - Feb 28, 2014 at 8:20 PM

    I can’t wait for the next cause de jour to come around.

    • jwbiii - Feb 28, 2014 at 8:36 PM

      hockeyflow33, This isn’t a cause de jour, it’s been going on for almost half a century. That it seems recent to you says something about you.

      • hockeyflow33 - Mar 1, 2014 at 2:28 AM

        That’s a complete lie. This was on no one’s radar in 1964, there were a few larger issues going on in society that were a bit bigger than people not liking a mascot.

        But go on with you pc-apologist bs because that’s all this is.

  20. cle440 - Feb 28, 2014 at 10:41 PM

    It is a failing bad paper

  21. bobbydeeohio - Mar 1, 2014 at 4:55 AM

    I grew up in Cleveland but now live north of LA, lived out here and followed the Dodgers longer than I followed the Tribe in OH 10.Yet, without a doubt my Favorite team in my Favorite sport is the Tribe!! I grew up reading and believing the Indians got their name in the early 1900s from a Great player who was Native American or as said over 100 years ago, Indian.

    I honestly thought that sometime between 1905 & 1920 the baseball team in Cleveland was the Spyders, with a Y.
    Then because of a Great Indian/Native American player the team name was changed. As a Honor to The Indian(s) because of the Strength, Power & Abilities of their Men.

    I have Hats (Millions of hats) from every Sport from a lot of different cities but my Favorite hat is my Indians hat with Chief Wahoo. Not the cartoon version which really can be seen as offensive, I wear a Chief Wahoo who projects a Strong Image. Who conveys to me a Champion, a Strong Leader and someone who never gives up. Those attributes will always be in season.

    How about If the Chief Wahoo cartoonish logo was eliminated and instead a Proud, Strong & Positive portrait of an Indian Leader used? Placed on SOME hats, uniforms and assorted items, not 100% but inter mixed with other options? The I and C and the Cleveland script.

    Would this be a compromise that would be agreeable for those on both sides? The name of the team is the Indians, not the Cs, let’s make it a symbol that Everyone can live with and most of all be proud of.

  22. jmedge77 - Mar 1, 2014 at 8:21 AM

    Really?? What about the name? Until I see a bunch of real Indians start ranting and raving doing protests in the streets then I’ll care…. It’s all you yuppie rejects that start this crap….

    • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:30 PM

      It’s the narrow minded right wing pea brains bass turds who don’t see a problem.

  23. keltictim - Mar 1, 2014 at 11:59 AM

    Actually tbuck the AOH does take a stand against drunken mick, and Spencer’s gifts, and wal-mart and everywhere else that promotes the Irish as drunken, stupid, fighters right around this time of year. The problem is white guys complaining of racism doesn’t get any play in any media.

    To the little girl (hope u can take a joke) clean up the drink you spit out and go run along and play with your barbies. Only a man can discuss things of this great a social importance. We wouldn’t want a little girls emotions running too wild and making an inflammatory statement about innocent football fans.

    • jimeejohnson - Mar 1, 2014 at 12:30 PM

      I think you’re lying.

  24. keltictim - Mar 1, 2014 at 1:30 PM

    Because lumping all conservatives together is no different than lumping all people of a particular race? A little history lesson too for all those accusing republicans of being racist, it was the repubs that freed the slaves and democrats that enacted all the Jim Crowe laws. Any true conservative republican will tell you that all people should be treated as equals. It is the far left who are the true racists with affirmative action, and wanting different rules for people of different colors and backgrounds. Conservatives stand for nothing less than true equality, anything less is a form of segregation.

    • Reflex - Mar 3, 2014 at 4:28 PM

      Look up the “southern strategy” and Nixon to know why people who are aware of this point is meaningless to today’s Republican party. The Dixiecrats of the 50’s became the socially conservative Republicans of the 70’s, and introduced a strong racist bent into the party that continues until this day.

      It is certainly untrue that all Republicans are racist. Most are not. But enough are, and enough of the remainder deprioritize racial issues that the party as a whole promotes policies that are often racist or at the least negligent to racial concerns.

      Your statement about Affirmative Action, btw, is a good demonstration of the problem. You do not understand the program and instead buy into whatever you have been fed by the racist elements of the party.

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