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A high school pitcher threw 194 pitches in 14 innings

May 15, 2014, 9:17 AM EDT

tommy john surgery

With all of the Tommy John surgeries lately, Dr. James Andrews has been interviewed a lot. His view is that abuse of pitchers between Little League and high school has a lot to do with all of these young major leaguers going under the knife. Their UCLs just haven’t developed all the way yet and they can’t take the strain that older pitchers may be better equipped to manage.

And that’s before you figure in that they often have workloads that older pitchers never deal with. Like this:

For Rochester (Wash.) baseball coach Jerry Striegel, why fix something that ain’t broke?

Striegel went with starting pitcher Dylan Fosnacht for 14 innings in a marathon, 17-inning game against LaCenter that Rochester won 1-0 on Tuesday. Fosnacht reported on Twitter that he threw 194 pitches in the contest, striking out 17 batters.

High school coaches have zero incentive to preserve the bodies of the kids under their command. And the kids themselves aren’t often in the position to object or even recognize that what they’re being asked to do is rather crazy. Listen to Dylan Fosnacht’s comments after the game:

Of course you are. Because your coach and maybe other coaches and maybe your parents and certainly sports culture at large has drilled it into your head that “doing whatever it takes” is the best thing to do. For a high school game.

That lede is the best, though. “Why fix something that ain’t broke?” To the coach I’d ask “why break something that ain’t broke?”

  1. chill1184 - May 15, 2014 at 9:19 AM

    I’m kinda curious what is the record for most pitches thrown in a single game by a starter?

    • dan1111 - May 15, 2014 at 9:32 AM

      The most pitches thrown at the major league level is 211 according to baseball reference. I can’t see who it is since I’m not a paying customer.

      • cinfante54 - May 15, 2014 at 9:40 AM

        Nolan Ryan threw 259 in 12 innings in 1974.

    • anxovies - May 15, 2014 at 9:46 AM

      In 1974,Nolan Ryan threw 259 pitches in a 12-inning win over Kansas City. In 1920, Leon Cadore and Joe Oeschger pitched a 26 inning game. Cadore threw and estimated 345 pitches and Oeschger threw 319

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 10:00 AM

        It is amazing that Nolan Ryan was able to pitch so long. He was an absolute horse. It is almost amazing he’s still able to use his arm!

      • nickmiller63 - May 15, 2014 at 10:18 AM

        asimonetti: he’s can’t; that’s why he’s always chewing ice.

      • jeffbbf - May 15, 2014 at 10:38 AM

        Nolan Ryan had a torn elbow ligament in 1967. He rehabbed it himself. No surgery. Chuck Norris who?

    • DelawarePhilliesFan - May 15, 2014 at 9:58 AM

      The answer is no one knows – pitch count never really started until the 80’s.

      Leon Cadore and Joe Oeschger BOTH pitched an entire 26 inning game back in the 20’s.

      http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BSN/BSN192005010.shtml

      It has been estimated that Cadore threw at least 300 pitches, but again, no one knows. Frankly – that number sound lows to me. 4 other pitchers have thrown 20 innings or more

    • rje49 - May 15, 2014 at 3:52 PM

      What about the 2 guys who threw all 26 innings (Brooklyn vs. Boston) on May 1, 1920? Each faced about 100 batters. Too bad there were no pitch counts way back then, but I’d really be more interested in pitch velocities.

      • rje49 - May 15, 2014 at 3:54 PM

        Oops, same game I referenced. Didn’t notice ’til it was too late.

  2. jarathen - May 15, 2014 at 9:23 AM

    The coach should be fired outright, and now the parents have a great case for a lawsuit should the kid have a future in baseball derailed by reckless idiocy.

    • skids003 - May 15, 2014 at 9:58 AM

      Yeah right, all parents think their kid is Nolan Ryan.

      • Kevin S. - May 15, 2014 at 10:17 AM

        He doesn’t need to have a major league future. It’s still reckless endangerment of the kid’s health.

      • dan1111 - May 15, 2014 at 10:44 AM

        While it is stupid to make him pitch that long, the danger to his health is much less than things that are done routinely in other sports.

      • jarathen - May 15, 2014 at 12:59 PM

        The kid isn’t, and isn’t even close by his own admission, but the coach should never endanger any child’s health with such reckless “managing.”

  3. Jason @ IIATMS - May 15, 2014 at 9:27 AM

    The problem is, without rules that are defined (maybe they were ignored), most (many? some?) HS coaches come from the “do whatever it takes to win” era, often confusing grit/determination with a greater desire to win at any cost. Unfortunately, crap like this can happen.

    It’s also up to the parents to be aware of the game and maybe making it known that, um, 14 innings and 194 pitches is not good, m’kay.

  4. gothapotamus90210 - May 15, 2014 at 9:29 AM

    As archaic as HS baseball was in the late 90s, my conference had a 9 inning limit per week, and if you appeared in 6 or more innings on a given day, you couldn’t pitch the next two days. How could his league miss having such a common sense rule?

    • sdelmonte - May 15, 2014 at 9:56 AM

      Common sense, as we all know too well, isn’t common.

  5. asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 9:30 AM

    Dylan Fosnacht ‏@DFosnacht5 7h
    People just don’t understand. I’m not a ace pitcher, I’m a infielder who pitches every now and then. Not a prospect ruining there career

    • stlouis1baseball - May 15, 2014 at 9:51 AM

      asimonetti:
      Shhhh! You are ruining everyone’s rage fest.

      Rage on folks! Rage on…

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 10:14 AM

        its not just this kid. and the outrage isn’t over “ruining a prospect” is over the intentional abusing of a person. its about physically harming a child.

      • stlouis1baseball - May 15, 2014 at 11:55 AM

        Intentional abuse? Really? Physical harm?
        You don’t see where you might be going off the deep end a bit Clyde?
        Here is an idea…let’s allow the school, the parents and the coach handle it. But of course…I am not big on sensetionalizing things. You being an attorney…how about you? Lol! Sorry. Really. That was joke.

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 3:10 PM

        What else would you call it?

        If you mean it doesn’t require a criminal inquiry, I agree, its not a crime in the legal sense. But it is using a child’s body without regard for the physical consequences. Which is abuse.

    • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 10:12 AM

      its cool kid. having a lifelong injury is no big deal. So what if in 10 years you can’t lift your arm. you are not a prospect. no one is going to miss you not being able to hold a 20 pound box.

      Right, but if that happens, you can just have tommy john surgery. good thing your insurance won’t ask any questions about the $100,000 surgery. Nope, they won’t think its elective at all. No matter, you plan on being rich anyway so you can pay for it yourself.

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 10:15 AM

        Well is this one outing going to cause him to need Tommy John?

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 10:20 AM

        I can’t answer that . what is your point?

        If I hit you in the face once are you going to need facial reconstruction surgery? no? ok, so its cool if i hit you in the face, right?

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 10:21 AM

        Nice false analogy.

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 10:28 AM

        so, what’s your point about? is this one outing going to result in a torn ligament?

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 10:36 AM

        Most likely not. So he had one high pitch count, has there been any proof that this is a regular occurrence? Playing a sport, any sport, even at “normal levels”, puts an exorbitant amount of stress on your body. If he has one high pitch count, well, that’s unfortunate, but unless his coach is riding on him for 14 innings every time he throws, I don’t see the point in getting upset.

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 11:00 AM

        oh, I get it. it doesn’t matte. we will judge things after something bad happens.

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 11:34 AM

        If there’s not a pattern of high pitch counts I don’t see the problem. Your false analogy of punching someone in the face is guaranteed to hurt someone, even if they don’t need reconstructive surgery. Throwing 194 pitches isn’t guaranteed to hurt the pitcher. Relievers tear UCLs with regular pitch counts under 40 pitches a game… If he goes out and has a high pitch count once, well, it’s certainly something to watch out for, but if it’s not a regular occurrence, it’s not that big of a deal…

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 12:03 PM

        wait, now we are talking about adult relievers? Children are not fully grown. you can’t compare the two.

        Why are you insisting there is no problem if no one gets hurt? Over stressing an arm is a guarantee of injury. where the threshold is is what we don’t know. It appears to be different in everybody.

        What we do know is that understressing an arm does not lead to injury.

        Anecdote: I am not a pitcher. I hurt my elbow 25 years ago. My guess is that one of the ligaments tore. It still hurts today. It limits what I can do. Insurance won’t cover the tests to see the problem, let alone the surgery.

      • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 11:58 AM

        The analogy that works, asimonetti88, is whether its smart to get totally hammered and get behind the wheel of a car, even once. In this case, its like a trusted adult provided the alcohol and the car keys. Reckless, stupid, totally preventable behavior should be criticized as reckless and stupid and totally preventable.

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 12:07 PM

        A repeated high pitch count can hurt a player. A single high pitch count? Who knows, but it’s not as dangerous as repeatedly doing it… if it’s not a repeated occurrence, why are you so upset about it?

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 3:08 PM

        this is a one time occurrence [citation needed]?

      • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 12:25 PM

        Why am I so upset about it? Why are you unable to simply have an intelligent conversation without attempting to make the people on the other side appear overly emotional? Is it because you lack confidence in your ability to advance a coherent argument?

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 3:16 PM

        “this is a one time occurrence [citation needed]?”

        This is a repeat occurrence [citation needed]?

      • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 3:30 PM

        I missed the part where i claimed it mattered if it was repeated occurrence.

    • sportsdrenched - May 15, 2014 at 10:14 AM

      I’m actually more concerned he doesn’t know his “there & their” than I am about his arm.

      • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 10:15 AM

        Public Schools!

    • Francisco (FC) - May 15, 2014 at 10:31 AM

      Oh. He’s an infielder, well that makes it all okay. NOT.

      No matter the position, I don’t think it’s smart to do that kind of thing. Read through the rest of his feed and he goes on about small town dynamics and whatnot (the stream oozes typical teenage know-it-all-ness).

      He’ll likely be fine, but what if he hurts something next time? or the next? The point is we don’t know, and all for what? High School Championship. Yeah kid they’ll remember you forever, but you gotta live the rest of your life too.

      • anxovies - May 15, 2014 at 11:14 AM

        So if he hurts something next time he will stop pitching, graduate and go on to whatever he is going to do in life (probably not an English teacher). It’s unlikely that he will need surgery or that his arm will fall off. Before Tommy John, pitchers just quit baseball and did something else. All the surgery does is allow you to resume pitching.

      • Francisco (FC) - May 15, 2014 at 11:17 AM

        Maybe, maybe not, what if it’s something more long term or permanent? Remember these are kids who are still developing muscles and ligaments. Not the same thing at all as when dealing with a similar injury in adulthood.

    • gatorprof - May 15, 2014 at 10:42 AM

      Great, so you lack the conditioning/training of a starting pitcher likely meaning that your mechanics are worse. It isn’t about ruining a career, but about ending up in the OR with an elbow or shoulder injury.

  6. kcroyal - May 15, 2014 at 9:30 AM

    Old Hoss Radburn is not impressed.

    • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 1:04 PM

      For a guy who hasn’t been able to so much as fog a mirror in 117 years, OHR tweets a lot of yang.

  7. thebadguyswon - May 15, 2014 at 9:30 AM

    I played with a guy in high school who could touch 90-91. He dominated our league his junior and senior years. But by the end of his senior year his velocity was down to the mid-80s….still good for high school, but noticebly down. So much so that colleges that were watching him the year before backed off. No idea what his pitch counts were, but he threw complete games every other game both seasons.

    He ended up going to a junior college after high school and blowing his elbow out that first season. He left college and went right into the Army – a baseball future with a glimmer of promise in high school completely gone by age 19.

    The coaches had that same tough-guy mentality drilled into him that this kid in Washington has had. But how do you stop it?

  8. larrytsg - May 15, 2014 at 9:32 AM

    OMG, there are no rules for pitchers at the HS level? I know from youth baseball (including Little League World Series) that the kids can throw 85 pitches max per game, and there are graduated mandatory rest time based on pitches thrown. It only makes sense to set it up that way.

  9. alexo0 - May 15, 2014 at 9:36 AM

    Craig, you missed something else almost as big.

    So not only does the kid pitch into the 15th, he gets replaced by the CATCHER who had been in the game until then. The catcher finishes the inning, then goes two more, and THEN throws another 7. Talk about abuse.

  10. andreweac - May 15, 2014 at 9:40 AM

    That coach needs to be indicted for child abuse. I’m serious.

    • skids003 - May 15, 2014 at 9:59 AM

      Sure. Right.

    • anxovies - May 15, 2014 at 11:22 AM

      If you are being serious, then get real. Child abuse for letting a kid pitch? This is how things start. They pass a law to punish serious crimes and people want to use it to jail somebody for life for spitting on the sidewalk. The US has 5% of the world population and 25% of the people incarcerated. Your comment is ridiculous and represents the kind of hysterical groupthink that has led us into this situation.

  11. thetxhammer - May 15, 2014 at 10:05 AM

    “Coaches have no…”, way to be dramatic and include all coaches across the country.

    “Child abuse…”, really? What is it with you people?

    Yes, something needs to be done about the coach, but that’s the parents job to complain and take care of it. Where were they? This is a “child” like you said, so it’s the parents responsibility to protect him from incompetent coaches who are only looking out for themselves and their records to keep a job.

    • jrbdmb - May 15, 2014 at 10:25 AM

      So the parents complain, then the kid gets blackballed and sits on the bench the rest of the year.

      No, this should be handled by the state / conference / school. Obviously rules need to be in place since it appears that about half posting here have no issue with the coach telling a kid to pitch 14 innings.

    • asimonetti88 - May 15, 2014 at 3:19 PM

      some people aren’t happy unless they have something to complain about

  12. anxovies - May 15, 2014 at 10:07 AM

    And yet after all of the pitch counts in the minor and major leagues we have young pitchers going down left and right (no pun intended) with arm problems. I played HS ball in the 1960s and they weren’t counting pitches. If a pitcher was going well after 9 innings they left him in until he was no longer effective. If you remember, the 60s was the era of the pitcher, they had to lower the mound to even things up for the batters. Pitchers like Gibson and Seaver regularly pitched 250+ innings with double digit complete games and well over 100 pitches in a game. In 1963, Marichal and Spahn locked up in a 16 inning game. Maybe Nolan Ryan (who had over 250 pitches in a game in 1973) is right and pitchers today should throw more than less. The big difference when I played was that HS pitchers mostly threw fastballs, most didn’t learn to throw an effective curve or a slider until they went to the minors or college, so maybe it’s the type of pitches thrown rather than the number.

    • sportsdrenched - May 15, 2014 at 10:20 AM

      You’re using the exceptions to make your point, not the rule. We track this stuff better than we did in the 60’s. For every Nolan Ryan, I bet there are several pitchers that had elbow trouble but it was never diagnosed…they just “lost it” or “were no longer effective” because they had to change their mechanics from pain in their arm.

      • anxovies - May 15, 2014 at 11:43 AM

        Until the last 20 years or so starting pitchers were expected to complete the game. Most of them did, or at least got to the 7th or 8th inning. And overall ERA figures were less than today. In 1980 if you had an ERA of 4.00 you were somebody who mopped up in blowouts. Today you are a No. 2 or 3 starter.

      • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 12:14 PM

        Anxovies, your memory is faulty, like most people who indulge in things-were-better-in-the-old-days logic. 20 years ago, the leader in complete games was Greg Maddux with 10, less than a third of his starts. Unit had 9 and no other starter had more than 7.

        But you are right. Pitchers did complete more games in the past. Here are the CG numbers for Fernando Valenzuela’s first seven years in the majors: 11, 18, 9, 12, 14, 20, 12. All those wonderful complete games are likely the reason he was on his way to being washed up @ 26 instead of on the fast track to Cooperstown.

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - May 15, 2014 at 1:03 PM

        Until the last 20 years or so starting pitchers were expected to complete the game. Most of them did, or at least got to the 7th or 8th inning.

        I don’t think this is true. The source is FJM, which doesn’t link the accompanying JoeBlog so I can’t give 100% accuracy, but:

        In one of Joe Posnanski’s most recent blogs, he talked about the average length of starts over the last 50 years, and how it really hasn’t gone down that much. Here’s his table:

        1956: 6.41 innings per start.
        1963: 6.50 innings per start.
        1968: 6.66 innings per start.
        1971: 6.60 innings per start.
        1977: 6.30 innings per start.
        1980: 6.33 innings per start.
        1985: 6.22 innings per start.
        1990: 6.06 innings per start.
        1995: 5.90 innings per start.
        1998: 6.06 innings per start.
        2001: 5.92 innings per start.
        2004: 5.86 innings per start.
        2008: 5.85 innings per start.

        50 years, two fewer outs a game.

        (its in the comments)

        http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/08/bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuce.html

    • Francisco (FC) - May 15, 2014 at 10:42 AM

      I think both of you have points. And yeah we should not be using Hall of Famers as the metric for typical 60’s pitcher durability. There’s a reason they are Hall of Famers, they were exceptional in many ways.

      Having said that, examining the influence of pitch type is a worthwhile task.

    • [citation needed] fka COPO - May 15, 2014 at 10:55 AM

      Gibson…Seaver…Marichal…Spahn…Ryan

      This is called survivorship bias. You remember them precisely because they made it through their careers with little to no injuries. But what about all the players who pitched a ton when they were young, and got injured? Guys like Fernando Valenzuela or Denny McClain or Doc Gooden.

      • anxovies - May 15, 2014 at 11:33 AM

        Denny McClain’s was high living and gambling. He was injured when a bookie broke his foot and he was suspended for 3 months for gambling. He never regained his form. Valenzuela pitched for 17 years and won 173 games. Gooden pitched for 16 years and won 194 games. If you are going to criticize me for cherry picking facts do a better job with your own.

      • anxovies - May 15, 2014 at 12:00 PM

        I meant to say “Denny McClain’s problem was..”

      • deepstblu - May 15, 2014 at 12:05 PM

        McLain “never regained his form?!” He had the broken foot the year BEFORE his 31-win season.

      • cohnjusack - May 15, 2014 at 12:06 PM

        Valenzuela pitched for 17 years and won 173 games. Gooden pitched for 16 years and won 194 games. If you are going to criticize me for cherry picking facts do a better job with your own.

        You aren’t seriously saying Gooden and Valenzuela were anywhere close to the same pitchers after the very early part of their careers, are you?!?

        Gooden qualified for the ERA title just once after age 28. Valenzuela was done being great by age 26 and an injury mangled mess the rest of his career. Neither would earn a CY Young vote after the age of 25.

        I don’t the the expectation for great young pitchers is to have them peak at 23 and be injured messes the rest of their careers.

      • cohnjusack - May 15, 2014 at 12:15 PM

        Some other fun examples include:

        Dean Chance
        Herb Score
        Gary Nolan
        Ewell Blackwell
        Mario Soto
        Vida Blue
        Sam McDowell
        Randy Jones

        …etc, etc, etc.

        The number of great young pitchers who flamed out before turning 30 is pretty staggering. You just aren’t as familiar with them as you are the Gibson’s and Spahn’s because they flamed out before turning 30

      • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 12:18 PM

        Exactly. This is like pointing @ Emmitt Smith, Franco Harris and Curtis Martin as examples of how easy it is to have a long career as a running back.

      • paperlions - May 15, 2014 at 12:26 PM

        Those aren’t good examples, but the fact is that the list of guys that flamed out from arm trouble is far longer than the list of survivors…and no one remembers the flame outs, many of which never made it ti the majors before getting hurt. There are plenty of articles on line that demonstrate that arm injuries were very common back in the good old days and that people have just forgotten about all of those guys.

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - May 15, 2014 at 1:08 PM

        If you are going to criticize me for cherry picking facts do a better job with your own.

        I didn’t cherry pick anything. You could have listed every single pitcher who had a 15+ year career and was at least above average, and the claim of survivorship bias is still in tact because you don’t include the others who DIDN’T make it 15 years, and there are far more of the latter than the former.

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - May 15, 2014 at 1:44 PM

        Valenzuela pitched for 17 years and won 173 games. Gooden pitched for 16 years and won 194 games.

        Valenzuela

        pre 27: 111-82, 1788 IP (~255IP/year), 3.11 ERA, 115 ERA+, 32 rWAR
        27+: 60-71, 1124.1 IP (~125IP/year), 4.29 ERA, 90 ERA+, 5.4 TOTAL rWAR

        Are we really going to argue he was the same pitcher after that injury shortened season?

  13. pbastille - May 15, 2014 at 10:19 AM

    They do pitch counts in the Little League in my neck of the woods, both in terms of a single game and over the course of a week. I wonder, though, if its really the number of pitches or the repertoire that is hurting the growing arms. When I was a kid back in the dark ages (I played LL in the 60s), if you saw a curveball with a noticeable break more than once a year, it was a rarity. Fastball, change-up, that was about it. Now kids are trying to develop 4 or 5 different pitches

    • Kevin S. - May 15, 2014 at 2:14 PM

      Everything I’ve read is that kids shouldn’t be throwing breaking balls before they’re 16 or so. Yes, obviously, everybody matures at a different pace, but they put too much stress on the ligaments before the arm is developed.

  14. notsofast10 - May 15, 2014 at 10:35 AM

    I don’t care how hard you throw, making it into the Bigs and making a career out of baseball is so very rare. If this kid was not a prospect and had no plans of making baseball a career, this could be the highlight of his athletic career. Let him have his moment.

  15. gatorprof - May 15, 2014 at 10:40 AM

    Both the coach and parents are idiots. Idiots do exist and end up hurting people…in this case the HS player.

    A couple of years back, I coached rec ball against a guy whose son was pitching against us. In this particular league, there was only one game per week, so there were no pitch count rules. I keep pitch counts for both teams.

    He threw something like 125 pitches (10 years old) in 6 innings. It gets better, the kid was trying to snap off curves all night as well. It wasn’t like he was super effective after the 4th inning (~ 60 pitches). We ended up scoring 6 runs in the 5th and 6th and won 6-2.

    After the game, I chewed the guy out about abusing his son’s arm. He was defiant and said his son always pitched CGs. Like I said, idiots exist. This kid will be toast before he gets to HS.

    • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM

      Just the fact that he had him throwing curveballs pisses me off.

  16. chaseutley - May 15, 2014 at 10:55 AM

    He averaged less than 14 pitches per inning. The kid works pretty efficiently.

    • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 11:08 AM

      teenage boys aren’t know for patience .

  17. jrob23 - May 15, 2014 at 11:10 AM

    This happened to me when I was 13 and my team was in States. I had just pitched last game 4 days prior to get us in the tournament and technically could have started but they were saving me for the finals. Our starter got hammered for 5 runs in first. So I warmed up and went in in first. Ended up going 8 innings and probably 150 pitches and we won in walk off fashion. Prior to that game I had scouts at games.
    Going into freshmen year next season I had noticeably lost about 5 m.p.h. on my FB. Such a shame really. My friend had same thing happen to him and he had better arm than me. He never got it back

    • clydeserra - May 15, 2014 at 11:25 AM

      You gladly took the ball, I am sure. I know I would.

      It has nothing to do with being macho, its more about teenage invincibility.

  18. coryfor3 - May 15, 2014 at 11:29 AM

    His coach is Dusty Baker.

  19. ud1951 - May 15, 2014 at 11:59 AM

    If you are coach, do you really need an incentive to preserve the bodies of the kids under your command? Really? That was like saying a general has no incentive to preserve the lives of his troops. It is both a false and ridiculously stupid statement. He has a powerful incentive–there is a next game–and he really does not need one–no one but a sociopath would knowingly want to see someone hurt badly.

  20. vanmorrissey - May 15, 2014 at 12:29 PM

    Aren’t the Japanese famous for their training and throwing methods, routinely throwing enormous amounts? Would like to know what their TJ stats are like.

    • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 12:33 PM

      Here’s a partial list of pitchers who’ve undergone the surgery.

      Masaharu Mitsui (first Japanese pitcher to undergo)
      Choji Murata
      Daisuke Araki
      Kiyooki Nakanishi
      Shin Nakagomi
      Masumi Kuwata (brief stint with the Pirates)
      Shugo Fujii
      Taiyo Fujita
      Takanobu Tsujiuchi
      Shintaro Ejiri
      Ryota Igarashi (Mets, Blue Jays)
      Dicky Gonzalez (during his time with Yakult)
      Greg LaRocca
      Shinichi Kondo
      Dass Romash
      Yutaka Ohtsuka
      Daisuke Nobue
      Keisuke Yasuda
      Keizo Kawashima
      Masataka Yamazaki
      Naoki Shirane
      Hideki Sunaga
      Ryota Wakiya
      Takayuki Kanamori
      Nariaki Kawasaki
      Hitoshi Yamamoto
      Yuya Kubo
      Lim Chang Yung (currently with Cubs?)
      Shota Miura
      Yusuke Ohtaki
      Shohei Tateyama
      Yoshimi Kazuki
      Takeshi Yagi

      • blacksables - May 15, 2014 at 1:12 PM

        There have been 5400 pitcher seasons in NPB in the last 30 years.

        That gives us a percentage of:

        .006111111

        Or little over half a percent.

        What is it in the US?

      • yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 3:58 PM

        Why skew the methodology of the examination by counting pitchers seasons instead of pitchers? So you could introduce several magnitudes of false data? That was an excellent example of one of the countless ways people use statistics to obscure instead of illuminate.

      • blacksables - May 15, 2014 at 4:14 PM

        How many pitchers have the surgery twice?

  21. yahmule - May 15, 2014 at 12:30 PM

    The most ridiculous argument on this topic are the people saying, “Hey, it only happened one time.”

    First off, if this idiot coach did it once, why wouldn’t he do it again?

    Would anybody be concerned to find out their kid used some illegal drug only once? Or tried to hop onto a moving train only once? Most parents would. That concern would quickly turn to anger if they found it was done while they were being supervised by an adult.

  22. lifer124 - May 15, 2014 at 4:38 PM

    The one thing I could say in their defense is that he probably wasn’t throwing 100% most of that time. You can get away with a lot more bad pitching in HS games. Imagine just playing an aggressive game of catch for an hour, how many throws would you make? Is that comparable to how an infielder might be pitching over the course of 14 innings? Maybe.

    On the other hand, even if he’s throwing BP style that’s a ton of strain on the arm. He shouldn’t even be playing infield for the next few days at least. It’s a shame that this kind of thing happens a lot more than we think. I see kids 10-12 years old throwing curveballs regularly now. When I was their age we weren’t allowed to throw a curve ever. The arms are only going to get worse because kids are focusing on baseball 365 days now instead of playing other sports during the other seasons.

  23. pacnwsailor - May 15, 2014 at 5:10 PM

    To quote Chris Rock…”sure you can do it…But, why would you want to?”

    BTW…I don’t know who to slap first, the coach for doing that to the kid, or the Father for letting the coach do that to his kid.

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