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HBT Daily: Is Tim Hudson a Hall of Famer?

Jun 13, 2014, 2:31 PM EDT

  1. dan1111 - Jun 13, 2014 at 2:41 PM

    The only argument you can even remotely make for Tim Hudson being a Hall-of-Famer is that he is a great pitcher who has had a long, valuable career.

    How can you elect someone who hasn’t even pitched a single 10 inning shutout during game seven of a World Series?

    • sportsfan18 - Jun 13, 2014 at 11:34 PM

      Jack Morris career ERA+ is 105

      A.J. Burnett career ERA+ is 105

      • dan1111 - Jun 14, 2014 at 1:45 AM

        Wait…did you think I was making a serious case for Jack Morris in the Hall?

  2. shawndc04 - Jun 13, 2014 at 2:55 PM

    Having watched Tim dominate my Nationals since 2005, I have the highest respect for him. He’s a consummate professional who knows how to pitch. That said, his numbers just don’t get him into the Hall. He’s got one twenty win season and nothing to speak of in the post season. If Jack Morris and Mike Mussina can’t get in, Tim most certainly won’t. I don’t think he reaches Blyleven’s level, and I was mildly surprised that Bert got in.

    • largebill - Jun 13, 2014 at 9:28 PM

      Your comment makes no sense. Morris was a slightly above average pitcher. Mussina is a much better pitcher who is still on the ballot and hopefully will gain traction once the backlog gets cleared. Regardless it is silly to claim he can’t get in after just one year on the ballot. Hudson isn’t likely to match Blyleven in wins, but that isn’t necessary. Blyleven is close to one of the top 25 starting pitchers of all time. Hall of Fame should have room for a lot of pitchers considering how important the position is to team performance.

    • sportsfan18 - Jun 13, 2014 at 11:55 PM

      Mike Mussina career ERA+ is 123

      Justin Verlander career ERA+ is 125

      Jack Morris career ERA+ is 105

      A.J. Burnett career ERA+ is 105

      Moose rises to the level to make it in.

      Moose vs. Blyleven

      Moose career ERA+ 123
      Blyleven career ERA+ 118

      Moose was 270 wins and 153 losses
      Blyleven was 287 wins and 250 losses

      Moose struck out MORE batters per 9 innings than Blyleven did.

      Moose’s WHIP was just a tad better (lower) than Blyleven’s was.

      Moose struck out 3.58 hitters per walk he issued.

      Blyleven struck out 2.8 men for each walk he issued.

      Moose vs. Jack Morris

      WHIP Jack’s was much higher than Moose’s

      ERA+ Moose was better again.

      Moose struck out MANY more batters per 9 innings than Jack did. Jack only struck out 5.8 hitters per 9 innings. Moose struck out 7.1 batters per 9 innings.

      Moose 270 wins vs. 153 losses
      Jack 254 wins vs. 186 losses

      KEEP looking at the stats and it’s easy to see that Moose is BETTER than either Morris or Blyleven…

      Hudson has a career ERA+ of 125 or the SAME as Justin Verlander does right now…

      Huddy is 212 wins vs. 113 losses.

      Huddy needs to finish strong this season and pitch one more good year.

      Huddy’s K’s per 9, WHIP etc… are better than Jack Morris’ but not quite as good as Moose’s.

      Out of these pitchers, the HOF should be as follows:

      Mike Mussina
      Bert Blyleven
      Tim Hudson
      Jack Morris

      If Huddy pitches well for another season and a half, he could have a real discussion aboout the HOF.

  3. paperlions - Jun 13, 2014 at 3:02 PM

    He’s been a nice pitcher, but he still lags behind Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling, Kevin Brown, and Holladay. Only a few of those guys should get in, but Hudson hasn’t been as good as any of them.

    • dan1111 - Jun 14, 2014 at 2:17 AM

      Hudson’s ERA+ is 125, while Smoltz, Mussina, Schilling, and Brown range from 123 to 127. It’s really quite close. The main thing separating them is innings–that group ranges from 200-500 innings more than Hudson.

      Halladay, on the other hand, was more dominant (131 ERA+), but he already has 150 fewer innings than Hudson. Hudson could be quite far ahead by the end of his career.

      I think you are right if his career ended today, but I wouldn’t bet against him comparing well to that group by the time he retires.

  4. navyeoddavee9 - Jun 13, 2014 at 3:08 PM

    Hall of very good

  5. illuminancer - Jun 13, 2014 at 3:28 PM

    I’m crossing my fingers and sacrificing to the baseball gods that Huddy can get a ring this year to help his case.

  6. johnnysoda - Jun 13, 2014 at 3:47 PM

    On, the most similar pitchers to Hudson are (among those who have been on a HOF ballot): Dwight Gooden, Orel Hershiser, Dazzy Vance, Dave McNally, Jimmy Key, Bob Welch, and David Cone. Of all those players, only Vance is in the Hall. Among the others, Hershiser was the only one to make it onto a second ballot.

    Not promising for Hudson.

    • cohnjusack - Jun 13, 2014 at 3:54 PM

      Gooden, Hershiser, McNally, Cone, Key and Welch…they may be similar in the ERA department, but none of them spent the majority of their careers in an extremely high runs scoring environment. As a consequence, Hudson is pretty far ahead of all of then in adjusted ERA plus.

      This also ignores the fact that Hudson’s career clearly isn’t over yet, as he’s currently leading the league in ERA and all.

  7. cohnjusack - Jun 13, 2014 at 3:49 PM

    If his career ended today, I’d say he’s borderline. 58 WAR, 125 ERA+ in just under 3,000 innings, a guy with a lot of good seasons but few really great seasons.

    But, seeing as he’s currently leading the league in ERA, his career ain’t over yet.

  8. antaresrex - Jun 13, 2014 at 4:12 PM

    He’s about as shaky a candidate as Buehrle or Oswalt. There are worse pitchers in the HoF, but there are better pitchers among their contemporaries who haven’t been inducted yet.

    • dan1111 - Jun 14, 2014 at 3:09 AM

      Oswalt has nearly 700 fewer innings than Hudson right now. By the end of Hudson’s career, it’s conceivable that he will have pitched 50% more innings than Oswalt, or even more than that.

      Buehrle, on the other hand, has a 119 ERA+ compared to Hudson’s 125. However, he is slightly ahead of Hudson in innings while being nearly four years younger.

      If their careers ended now, Hudson would clearly be the best. But I do think Buehrle has a decent chance of ending up with the better career.

      Ultimately, you are right that Hudson is a shaky candidate right now. But it will come down to how is career ends. If he has a few more strong seasons (especially if he can attract some attention with a Cy Young and/or playoff heroics), he will look like a much more likely inductee.

  9. sisqsage - Jun 13, 2014 at 5:43 PM

    ATH: Awessssssome Tim Hudson.
    Class guy. Great in the clubhouse. Knows how to pitch in any situation. This isn’t his first rodeo, Festus. Even when he’s been a little off he still gets to the 7th inning at least. He can still get a lineup out with several pitches, so it’s conceivable he could hang around for a few more years, which gets him in the 250-win range and definitely in the HOF conversation. With Bochy, he could win a ring this year or next, which will strengthen his HOF case even more. Go for it big fella.

  10. American of African Descent - Jun 13, 2014 at 6:08 PM

    That he hasn’t won a Cy Young Award—and has only finished in the top three once—suggests that he was not really one of the best pitchers in his generation. A very good pitcher to be sure. But I’m having a hard time getting there on the Hall of Fame case.

  11. miguelcairo - Jun 14, 2014 at 1:33 AM

    Comparing him to Andy Pettitte? Pettitte has five rings.

    • dan1111 - Jun 14, 2014 at 3:11 AM

      Pettitte was also not as good of a pitcher.

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