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Michael Wacha and Jaime Garcia both headed to the DL with shoulder injuries

Jun 22, 2014, 6:05 PM EDT

Michael Wacha Michael Wacha

MLB.com’s Jenifer Langosch reports that Cardinals starters Michael Wacha and Jaime Garcia will go on the disabled list, both with shoulder injuries.

Wacha was supposed to start on Sunday against the Phillies, but Carlos Martinez was bumped up and started in his place. The Cardinals maintained that nothing was wrong with Wacha, but we now see that was not the case.

Garcia made his season debut on May 18 after missing the first seven weeks of the season with a left shoulder injury. He had surgery to repair a partially torn labrum and rotator cuff last May.

In 15 starts spanning 90 1/3 innings, Wacha posted a 2.79 ERA with an 83/26 K/BB ratio. Garcia posted a 4.12 ERA with a 39/7 K/BB ratio in 43 2/3 innings across seven starts.

  1. paperlions - Jun 22, 2014 at 6:12 PM

    This….this is not good.

    • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 10:56 AM

      Garcia … not a total surprise.

      Wacha? Not good at all, yep.

    • mangoman1966 - Jun 23, 2014 at 11:48 AM

      Sadly this has become an epidemic in baseball these days. Hope it doesn’t involve any surge for either of these guys.

  2. okwhitefalcon - Jun 22, 2014 at 6:18 PM

    Unfortunate news for sure.

    For those who didn’t see Mo’s presser after the game, he was extremely calculated in his commentary, especially on Wacha – basically saying they were in uncharted waters in regards to his injury. Not good obviously.

    He said there’s “no chance” of Kelly getting Garcia’s spot this time around (Wednesday in Colorado)and will be doing 40-60 pitches in Memphis this week and subsequent roster moves will be announced tomorrow.

    Let the speculation begin..

    • paperlions - Jun 22, 2014 at 6:50 PM

      Garcia isn’t surprising. El Gallo has looked good in his 2 starts.

      Losing Wacha to a mysterious deep shoulder muscle problem (he said is was something under his scapula) is troubling. Cooney might get a shot. Gast is rehabbing, finally. Petrick could get a spot start if they are feeling adventurous. Marco Gonzalez has been great in his first few games in AA…he may have the best shot at being a solid starter right now, but they may not want to push him too much….though he was called (and is still considered) a very polished pitcher than can and should move quickly through the system.

      • twohundrdponies - Jun 22, 2014 at 10:07 PM

        How is Gast coming along? I hadn’t heard anything about him since he went down last year…

        If you take Trezza’s word for it, either Greenwood or Petrick is going to get the nod for the start in replacement. Admittedly I didn’t know Greenwood was experienced as a starter in the minors, but from the way he pitched the other night I think he at least deserves the first chance at cracking the rotation.

        You nailed it on Garcia though. After the previous year, anything we got from him going forward was enjoyable, but not to be counted on. I think if you asked any knowledgeable Cards fan, no one was expecting him to last.

        Out of curiosity (and lack of in-depth knowledge of Springfield), what makes Gonzalez such a sure bet in your mind? AA to the Bigs is a huge jump, just interested in what you see that sets him apart from some of the AAA options (particularly Castro)?

      • paperlions - Jun 22, 2014 at 10:23 PM

        Gonzalez is just a polished guy. Lots of pitches, can throw them all for strikes with control.

        Castro is just roster filler. Dude is 31 and in the minors for a reason.

        AA and AAA aren’t really that different in talent. The big jumps are between A+ and AA and between AAA and the majors. If there was anyone in the AAA rotation that had been doing well enough to instill confidence, I’d say use them…but there really isn’t such a guy on that staff. Cooney would be the best one, but I don’t think the schedule works out for him.

        Gast hasn’t been great. But he hasn’t pitched in a year, so he’s just getting back in the swing. He doesn’t look ready.

      • twohundrdponies - Jun 22, 2014 at 10:59 PM

        Would you put it past Matheny to give Castro a shot though? I wouldn’t, even if it is for a single start. Don’t get me wrong, I’m no huge Castro proponent, but he has the best AAA numbers (ERA, IP) for the Cards to this point. Minor league filler arm or not, personally I can’t trust Matheny to not “give a guy a chance”. Blame it on my (probably biased) mistrust of Matheny’s system-based loyalty, but I don’t trust him to make the best call i this particular situation.

        In the end, I hope the Cards take the path of least resistance and give Greenwood the start. If not him, then Petrick seems the obvious promotion. No offense to Gonzalez, but Petrick has the AAA stats and experience to warrant such a move.

      • paperlions - Jun 22, 2014 at 11:13 PM

        Not really Matheny’s call. It’ll be discussed as an organization, but of those people with a voice, Matheny will by far know the least about the available options.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 10:59 AM

        I really don’t see Gonzales coming up right now. I expect Greenwood to get the one immediate start while Mo and Matheny assess longer-term possibles. Kelly is multiple starts away. Lyons is ughhhhhh.

      • paperlions - Jun 23, 2014 at 11:20 AM

        Greenwood isn’t a starter. Considering the tax on the bullpen from stretching out Carlos, I doubt they would go with a guy that they would be lucky to get 4 innings from.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 12:24 PM

        @Paper I didn’t say Greenwood was a long-term, or even medium-term option. I said *one start* and thus giving management more time to think out options, including adjusting Cooney’s schedule, if he’s to be called up.

        And, per Falcon, lower down, per his link, Greenwood has started nearly 50 games in his minors career.

      • paperlions - Jun 23, 2014 at 12:42 PM

        Greenwood has NEVER been a starter. “Starts” in the low minors just mean the guy was the first one to pitch, not that he is a “starter” that will pitch deep into a game.

        Since 2010, the most Greenwood has averaged per appearance is 3.6 innings and he’s never averaged more than 4 1/5 innings at any level.

        If Greenwood “starts”, it’ll just be a bullpen game.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 1:00 PM

        @Paper. Nonsense. “Starts” in the minors, especially at higher levels, means …

        Starts.

        In the year Greenwood had the most starts, 2010, he averaged about 4 innings per game, for ALL appearances. Half those were starts; I think we can reasonably say he had 5 innings per start, which is not that much less than the average MLB starter today.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 2:12 PM

        Gast has an ERA above 6 and WHIP above 7 … scratch him as a 2014 call-up option.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 2:22 PM

        Ohh, that should be ERA above 6 and WHIP above 1.7, not above 7, for Gast … he’s struggling, but not THAT much.

    • okwhitefalcon - Jun 22, 2014 at 8:00 PM

      I really couldn’t get a read on which direction they would go with internal options (beyond C-Mart of course), unfortunately (unless there’s some lightning in a bottle) I don’t think anyone they have will be able to perform at the level that both Wacha and Garcia were performing.

      They do have assets to go outside the organization, the Price talk will obviously escalate but who knows what that would take – junior GM’s will have a field day.

      The offense needs to step up and step up fast, the starting pitching has been carrying the club all year and keeping them hanging around and this upcoming road trip to Colorado, LA, and Frisco could be absolutely brutal.

      Here’s the latest from Derrick Goold, complete with possible options:

      http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/shoulder-issues-land-wacha-garcia-on-dl/article_0eec6ab6-15cc-51dd-814f-a55158e805d0.html

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 2:05 PM

        I think the Price talks have to be put on hold until they know something further about Wacha, especially if the Rays are wanting two pitchers in return as part of the deal.

  3. sportsfan18 - Jun 22, 2014 at 6:50 PM

    The Cardinals maintained that nothing was wrong with Wacha, but we now see that was not the case.

    The Cardinal Way…. Lying through their teeth…

    But, they are damn good year in and year out…

    • paperlions - Jun 22, 2014 at 6:55 PM

      No team is publicly accurate in their reports of injuries, nor should they be. The public has no right to know the personal medical reports of players or when a player is expected to be back from injury. Any information that is provided is a courtesy or is designed to get reporters to stop asking questions that they have no intention of answering and to which reporters have no right to expect an answer.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 11:01 AM

        Sorry, but, as a Cards fan who remembers how Shelby Miller’s postseason was handled, and how wasting a roster spot on him was stupid, I’m with “sportsfan” on this one.

  4. chill1184 - Jun 22, 2014 at 7:06 PM

    More arms exploding, sheesh

  5. wilmyers09 - Jun 22, 2014 at 7:24 PM

    cards suck glad these guys went down now i cant wait to see cards fall

    • stex52 - Jun 23, 2014 at 9:23 AM

      Yeah, I think it’s cool when guys are injured, too. Troll.

  6. gibbyfan - Jun 22, 2014 at 10:36 PM

    I guess it’s part of the game today but bad luck for the Cards with Garcia–seems like right after he signed the multi year deal his durability went right off a cliff.

  7. coryfor3 - Jun 23, 2014 at 10:04 AM

    I think this pretty well indicates the end for Garcia. Guys just don’t really come back from shoulder problems like they can with the elbow. And it is certainly not good new on Wacha.

  8. okwhitefalcon - Jun 23, 2014 at 10:22 AM

    Interesting stuff from Joe Strauss this morning on AM 920 on the Cards latest injury news.

    – The club seems more concerned with Garcia at the moment

    – No certain timetable for Wacha’s return although “before the trade deadline” could be realistic.

    – Rays and Cards have been scouting each other heavy but nothing gaining momentum to a deal

    – Lyons will probably get the call short term but nothing concrete

    Audio should be up here shorty:

    http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/TheMorningAfter/tabid/88/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/13490/Mondays-Show-Audio–Six-Figure-Jigga.aspx

    • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 11:02 AM

      Please, not Lyons.

    • okwhitefalcon - Jun 23, 2014 at 12:32 PM

      Koz and Fornataro recalled per Derrick Goold.

      That’s not a typo either.

      No word on a Wednesday starter yet.

      I really have no idea what the hell is going on, this year gets more bizzarro by the second.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 1:03 PM

        Kozma? Was he taking pitching practice down in Memphis? WTF?

        I guess Fornataro gets the first opening for Wacha, with Greenwood “stretcing him out” like with Martinez.

        But, Kozma?

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 1:09 PM

        Per Gould … the next move could be Keith Butler to the 60-day DL, which opens a new slot on the 40-man. If they do that, that’s a sign that Kelly still isn’t ready …. which itself would not be good news.

    • okwhitefalcon - Jun 23, 2014 at 1:13 PM

      The Cards bench is now includes Descalso, Bourjos, Koz with a 10 game roady starting tonight.

      I’m speechless, I’m without speech.

      The latest from Goold can be read here, more roster moves likely to follow.

      http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/cards-promote-fornataro-kozma-for-colorado-series/article_f08c8e39-8bc9-5ce5-8803-f2fdd9c55dcc.html

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 2:03 PM

        If Goold is right on the 60-day DL for Butler, and right that it’s more than idle speculation …. who are they looking at that’s not on the current 40-man is the first question. I say Cooney or Petrick. I think they’d like to not jump Gonzales from AA yet. That said, this also means that, as I noted above, they’re still not 100 percent confident about Kelly’s rehab timetable, and that they’d like to avoid calling Lyons up if they can.

        And why Kozma instead of Garcia, I don’t know.

      • okwhitefalcon - Jun 23, 2014 at 2:31 PM

        At this point, I have no freaking clue what the organization is thinking.

        I doubt Cooney is in play for Wednesday, same for Gonzalez – maybe Petrick if another roster move is in order but who knows.

        The Koz move is absolutely baffling, unfortunately it gives us a good idea what they think about Garcia internally and it’s obviously not good.

      • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 2:52 PM

        Well, you’re probably right on that, on the organization’s take on Garcia. That said, he’s still showing a better batting line down at Memphis than Kozma.

        I agree that neither Cooney nor Gonzales is likely for Wednesday. I was thinking the next slotted start … unless that Butler comment was totally idle chatter, it seems like the Cards are looking at somebody not on the current 40-man as their next pitching move.

  9. kycardsfan - Jun 23, 2014 at 10:36 AM

    Interesting to see how the Cards handle this, not worried about them making a knee jerk reaction. However I do think they will be more aggressive in making a potential deal. At some point they need to add a bat, team just isn’t hitting. Would love to see them add Price and Zobrist from Tampa. Probably a long shot, but it would be absolutely perfect.

    • stex52 - Jun 23, 2014 at 11:07 AM

      I happen to be a big fan of Zobrist. But I don’t think he answers the Cards’ problems right now. He is not having a good year himself. They have a player in place at every position who is doing better than he is.

      Price? Well, of course he helps.

    • SocraticGadfly - Jun 23, 2014 at 12:20 PM

      It’s a longer shot now, with some (temporarily, at least) broken pitching on our own end, on getting Price.

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