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Oh joy, we get to revel in PED names being named again

Aug 6, 2014, 2:56 PM EDT

francisco cervelli getty Getty Images

I assume there is a long German word that describes the simultaneous disgust at seeing PED users’ names revealed and the joy with which we get to shame them. It’s probably something like GreggDoyelSchenfruede or something like that:

I have a list. So do you, right? If you’re a baseball fan and you’re hearing that more names are about to be connected to Biogenesis, the cheatingest PED factory since BALCO, this is where you dig through your mental rolodex for the names of guys you’re sure are cheating.

Don’t worry, Doyel is no going to do so something as irresponsible as name names with no evidence. But he has promised to tell you later if they were on his list. Which, I assume was constructed with great scientific rigor.

What do I look for? I’ll tell you some day, when the list comes out and if any of my names are on there. I figure one of them will be at least. This stuff is easy, really. It’s simple to look at certain guys and just think, just know, “He’s not doing that legally.” Especially given what we know about the nature of baseball, just like the nature of sprinting and cycling. Certain things have never been possible before, and while breakthroughs and advances do happen, there are some ceilings that get cracked that just don’t seem plausible. Not legally plausible, anyway.

So true. I mean, when I look at the feats of Everth Cabrera, Jhonny Peralta, Antonio Bastardo, Francisco Cervelli, Jordany Valdespin, Jesús Montero, César Puello, Sergio Escalona, Fernando Martínez, Fautino de los Santos and Jordan Norberto my first thought is “It’s so obvious. The things they have done are utterly IMPOSSIBLE! Let me go check my list, ah, yes. There they are.”

But I have spoken with Doyel online before and I do believe his anger and outrage at PED users is genuine. I just also happen to believe that he would do better, as would we all, if instead of channeling that anger and outrage into a parlor game of speculation, name-naming and player shaming, we actually thought about came up with some ideas about how and why guys cheat and whether trotting out lists of names for public ridicule and nothing more is the best way to go about it. George Mitchell did that several years ago. It hasn’t really worked out.

But I truly do hope that your list is correct, Gregg. It will truly mean something then.

  1. AlmostForty - Aug 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    Baseball’s nightmare right now is Jeter being named on one of these lists while doing his farewell tour. That or some other iconic guy like a Miggy or a Pujols.

    • titknocker - Aug 6, 2014 at 4:41 PM

      The only juice Miggy uses he mixes w/ vodka

    • rajavier3105 - Aug 6, 2014 at 4:44 PM

      Can of worms material lol

    • lukedunphysscienceproject - Aug 6, 2014 at 4:54 PM

      I agree. Followed closely by David Ortiz.

      • dohpey28 - Aug 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM

        He’s already been on a list, the orginal 100 list, and apparently is teflon Papi.

    • steelpenbucs87 - Aug 6, 2014 at 5:06 PM

      Completely agree – the only thing that would be worse, IMO, would be Mo Rivera*. He was already given the farewell and the ride into the sunset. At least any current players would be exposed to the media for the balance of the season or longer – Mo could just go home and kick it.

      *- I do not have any evidence that Mo Rivera did steroids, nor do I think he did steroids. My only thought was trying to come up with a hypothetical worst case scenario.

      • Jason @ IIATMS - Aug 6, 2014 at 8:28 PM

        Cal Ripken? George Brett and Mike Schmidt shooting up each other, ala McGwire/Canseco? That’s a nightmare scenario.

        Current day… the new book “Blood Sport” is Latin-heavy, so that’s the (unfortunate) direction to head.

    • slappymcknucklepunch - Aug 7, 2014 at 12:51 AM

      If it was Jeter,can you imagine the heart attacks? Everything I have seen,heard or watched in a Yankee broadcast is “FIRST BALLOT HOF” How can they vote him in and leave everyone else off?

      Yeah I know I am going to get grief over this but a part of me wants this to happen(just so we can agree a lot of juiced up pitchers were throwing to a lot of juiced up hitters who were batting balls to a lot of juiced up fielders)just for the symmetry of it all. I have no idea who did what when.I just do not care anymore.After the canceled WS, I lost interest for a couple years. Ripken,Sosa+McGwire dragged me right back. Even the Hated Yankees were exciting for me. Baseball was back baby.

      I guess I just want all the guys I did pay money to see get the recognition they deserve for putting asses in the seats.

      Did I say guys? I meant umpires and owners.

      • nicktyreezy - Aug 7, 2014 at 1:05 PM

        Right, because only Yankees announcers think Derek Jeter is a 1st ballot hall of famer.

        Idiot.

  2. goskinsvt - Aug 6, 2014 at 2:59 PM

    ” I just also happen to believe that he would do better, as would we all, if instead of channeling that anger and outrage into a parlor game of speculation, name-naming and player shaming, we actually thought about came up with some ideas about how and why guys cheat… ”

    I’m pretty sure we know the answer to these questions.

    • Craig Calcaterra - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:10 PM

      The “why,” sure. But tell me: how did the guys in Biogenesis get introduced to Bosch? Who did the introducing? Or where they recruited? Were there means by which they were more likely to do so that, if baseball made small changes, would not be available? Did they take their drugs at certain times and not others? How did they evade detection?

      Oh wait, I’m sorry. No one cared about any of that. They just wanted names named.

      • goskinsvt - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:14 PM

        Fair. I just didn’t get that from the above quote, but I agree with you.

      • raysfan1 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:31 PM

        I’d say they mostly evaded detection due to only getting tested twice a year (4 times a year as of this year). Many drugs and their metabolites do no remain in the system long. Bartolo Colon and Melky Cabrera were caught. I don’t know when Ryan Braun became a Biogenesis customer to know if the positive/not positive testosterone level may have been the result of Biogenesis product use.

        I’ve posted many times MLB needs to test more often and include no-notice, random 24/7/365 testing if they want to really decrease player use. They don’t need to up the punishment ante further; they need to convince players they are more likely to get caught than taking the chance at cheating is worth. Meanwhile, I’d like to see some sort of leniency/probation for players who cooperate with rooting out the friggin’ dealers.

      • pete2112 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:48 PM

        Craig, it’s pretty naive to think there isn’t something out there players can take to evade detection. It’s amazing the level of denial you have when it comes to this subject.

      • chip56 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:50 PM

        Craig, you’re either being intentionally naive or you still don’t understand how your medium works. Let’s say that Alex, Cervelli et al were introduced to Bosch by some no-name trainer that no one has ever heard of. That doesn’t matter to anyone outside of the industry which will then advise the rest of players to stay away from him/her.

        The users, assuming they are big name players, get the headlines.

        It’s the price of fame.

      • 4cornersfan - Aug 6, 2014 at 4:54 PM

        Gossip. Nothing promotes gossip like a dugout. In high school it was the girls that put out. In college it was who you can pay to do your mid-term paper. In professional baseball it’s where to get roids and how to beat the test.

      • ltzep75 - Aug 6, 2014 at 5:21 PM

        Craig, there was recently a fairly in depth article about ARod, what possessed him to go to Bosch, who introduced him, as well as some interesting information regarding ARod’s alleged use of EPO.

        It can be found here:

        View story at Medium.com

      • Paper Lions - Aug 6, 2014 at 6:26 PM

        Apparently, many of the names were associated with HGH, which is nearly impossible to test positive for….no one has ever tested positive for HGH during a random drug test in any sport.

      • Jason @ IIATMS - Aug 6, 2014 at 8:29 PM

        And it’s all in “Blood Sport”.

      • slappymcknucklepunch - Aug 7, 2014 at 1:20 AM

        @ Raysfan1
        I agree wholeheartely with your post.However with so many south american players trying to get out of poverty with thier natural talent,shady scouts and shady drug dealers will sell you on trying something like horse steroids. If they would sell you horse-roids,can you imagine what they would do to your unprotected family? Realisticly,drug dealers are not good old”aging clinic” Bocshes who are catering to rich Floridians who happened upon some rich ballplayers.They are thugs who would kill your family for snitching. Take care of that mess plus HGH testing,blood doping etc,then maybe.

        I like your posts,don’t take this as a critical,just my 2 cents

        Sorry for the spelling errors,my laptop has no spell-check and have to rely on my 5th grade spelling bee participation medal for back up.

        Just once I want to buy a 30$ laptop out of some guys trunk and have it work right.

        Actually got it for 25 and a half- pack of Winstons. Amaro better watch out.

  3. chacochicken - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:06 PM

    Maybe those waiting with baited breath for PED users should spend some time considering the enormous increase of hypogonadism and ADD/ADHD sufferers amongst MLB players.

    Also, Captain America took PEDs.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:15 PM

      I like my chicken without hormones and whatnot, thank you.

      /snaps tongs

      • dsaverno - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:54 PM

        you made me spit coffee all over my computer screen. thank you.

    • chadjones27 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:58 PM

      hypogonadism and hyperactivity… I’m a hyper-hypo

    • clemente2 - Aug 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM

      chaco has it—where is the outrage over that, when it is clear as day prescription abuse is going on. All a charade, including the PED outrage. Doyel is a tool, not a partisan.

    • DJ MC - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:35 PM

      I’m pretty sure MLB has done extensive research interviews with the groupies to confirm the hypogonadism numbers.

    • unclemosesgreen - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:48 PM

      Therapeutic Use Exemption hotline, this is Uncle Mose … oh chaco, it’s you. Yes, there have been a startling increase in ADD among active – uh oh, hold on, let me get this (hey nineteen – the cuervo gold – the fine Colombian – make tonight a wonderful thing) yeah chaco sorry about that guys are getting worn down. I got 4 calls the other night from … well I can’t say, but let’s just say the calls came from Cleveland but they weren’t from the Indians. Oh man, hold on (no we’ve got nothing in common – no we can’t talk at all – please take me along when you) sorry, after the All Star Game is my busy season. That was nothing – Chooch just butt dialed me!

      Anyway – be good – and remember – Good People, Good Food

  4. jfk69 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:19 PM

    This horse has been beaten to death.
    The distributor has cut a deal. All that is left now in our zeal to out every suspected name, is to finish turning over every slimy rock whenever a new rumor surface. That being said I have named Joe McCarthy to head up a special investigation into this anti American activity.

    • chip56 - Aug 6, 2014 at 8:02 PM

      What’s ironic is that Craig complains about PED stories yet he’s the only member of Hardballtalk writing about them…so there’s that.

      • slappymcknucklepunch - Aug 7, 2014 at 1:32 AM

        Um,maybe he is also one of the main reasons there is a HBT?

      • chip56 - Aug 7, 2014 at 11:51 AM

        I’m not sure how that’s relevant. Craig keeps acting like the names are irrelevant yet he is the only one talking about them. So either he’s part of the problem (shouting out the names of players as an attention grabbing stunt) or they are newsworthy and he needs to quit whining about it.

  5. Eutaw's Finest - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:23 PM

    I don’t much care at this point about naming more names, but I do hope if/when all names come to light that we do an all PED’s team. The who’s who of the Bosch Incident.

    Also- over/under on years til this is a movie? 3? 5?

    • gloccamorra - Aug 7, 2014 at 1:08 AM

      A movie is highly unlikely. No car chases, and sweating out a drug test is not the stuff of high drama. Then again, if they can sign George Clooney, Leo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt to appear in jockstraps in the clubhouse, it’ll make money as a chick flick.

      • slappymcknucklepunch - Aug 7, 2014 at 1:38 AM

        As long as Sandra Bullock, Selma Hayack and Sophia Vergi……..mumble…spelled correctly.was in it,I would rate 12/10.

  6. jfk69 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:26 PM

    I realize the wheels of justice turn slowly. This is now bordering on ridiculousness.
    There are now young players( Pitchers )of family means who are opting to have surgery to add an elbow tendon to give added strength and in hope of avoiding a future elbow tear. Nothing yet illegal about that. But is it fair?

    • dsaverno - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:30 PM

      woah, I’d like to read about that one. Link please?

      • jfk69 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:06 AM

        I believe it was a Sports Illustrated article about 2 years ago. i am sorry I don’t have a link. The young pitcher was playing in California.

  7. dsaverno - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:26 PM

    Remember the Gio Gonzalez!

  8. sisisisisisisi - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:27 PM

    it would not surprise me to see

    Craig Calcaterra,
    self-proclaimed PED apologist,

    on the list
    ;-)

    • ltzep75 - Aug 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM

      He has been typing a prodigious amount of words per minute…

      • unclemosesgreen - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:51 PM

        He’s on the Webster’s – that’s the spell-check juice.

    • slappymcknucklepunch - Aug 7, 2014 at 1:51 AM

      I agree with CC. Who cares anymore ? If you take away all the ped users that everyone is so afraid of with tainting the game,most likely hitters. Well guess what? Clemons,maddox,ryan,glavine etc.no longer are HOFers because those hits don’t count.They never pitched those games.

      The ONLY thing ped users agree on is it helps speed up recovery from workouts.Whom would benifit more in that scenario? Hitters or pitchers?You cant say put an * on bonds because he hit home runs,then in the next breath say that borderline HOF pitcher deserves to go in.Why? If bonds Bonds hits don’t count,niether do the pitchers whom had an actual record against said hitter.You can’t have it both ways. Sorry,but you can’t

  9. rcj22001 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:29 PM

    Pretty convenient to mention the under performers and leave out Bartolo Colon and Nelson Cruz, who both faired pretty well in the aftermath.

    • chip56 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:50 PM

      And Melky, Braun and Alex.

    • clemente2 - Aug 6, 2014 at 5:27 PM

      Ummm, that’s the point. If you are outraged by the increase in perrformance by the stars, you have to explain the lack of it for the larger user-group. Or maybe its not that great an explanation? And, then, the outrage over unearned performance settles down, maybe enough so that interesting questions like the ones Craig listed in the comments can be thought about. See, that was easy.

  10. pete2112 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:29 PM

    Here we go again, Craig. Like yesterday, the sarcasm with your regard to PED users or those to be named, suspected, linked or whatever the case may be seems to be a joke to you. I have hard time believing even if we had a 100% solid evidence of players named to be legit, you would still find a way to make it a witch hunt and make the player accused to be the victim. Is it that you just don’t believe PED’s have the ability to do what is claimed by doctors or that you don’t want to think your favorite players’ numbers are skewed by their cheating?
    Again, if players are dumb enough to be associated with Biogenisis, it’s all on them whether or not they took something banned.

    • DJ MC - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:37 PM

      I’m not sure the words “witch hunt” mean what you think they mean.

      • pete2112 - Aug 7, 2014 at 7:25 AM

        Witch hunt: a campaign directed against a person or group holding unorthodox or unpopular views. I think it does but thanks for trying to make me look bad.

      • DJ MC - Aug 7, 2014 at 10:05 AM

        OK, now apply that to what you said, which is that Craig is making it a witch hunt.

        As opposed to MLB, the real organization hunting for the witches.

      • pete2112 - Aug 7, 2014 at 10:25 AM

        My point is that Craig doesn’t seem to put any credence into the whole PED usage in MLB and that stories like this about Biogenisis and others are basically just a “witch hunt” on players that are on a list but don’t actually have evidence to support their use of PED’s. I don’t care if it’s MLB, congress or my next door neighbor conducting an investigation, if there’s a possible connection with probability that a player is taking or trying to acquire PED’s, I want it out there.

      • DJ MC - Aug 7, 2014 at 11:22 AM

        Ok, I think I see where you’re coming from now. However, I also think you’re missing Craig’s criticism with stories like this.

        His issue is that it only appears that MLB wants to reveal as many PED “cheats” as possible, and are willing to get into bed with anyone that helps them do so. They aren’t looking into the underlying problems and reasons for players to seek out substances and the low-lifes who distribute them, and working on prevention.

        MLB’s actions throughout the Biogenesis scandal have been poor, and often quite disturbing. And the result is only going to be more self-flagellation instead of real attempts at finding solutions.

    • pete2112 - Aug 7, 2014 at 12:47 PM

      I agree that MLB has not done well on their end with regard to this case, but I still think it’s better than the alternative, which is to let these guys continue to get away with cheating or to go back to the 90’s when home run records were being broken everyday, which I know MLB was just as responsible for. I just have a hard time when fans and members of the media such as Craig can just turn a blind eye to this stuff and consider it irrelevant.

  11. barrywhererufrom - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:33 PM

    Ok why did these players’ actually go to Bosch? Hmmm lets think real hard about that one..the only way in some peoples’ minds to actually find someone guility of taking ped’s is actually seeing them do it. I really doubt that these players were going to Biogenisis for vitamins..

    • dsaverno - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:39 PM

      would you believe that Gio Gonzalez actually did go for vitamins; at least that’s what baseball concluded last year. That was the only surprising thing that came out of the whole situation with Bosch.

    • pete2112 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:42 PM

      Well according to Craig, it seems to be just a fairy tail and that PED’s don’t actually exist nor do players benefit from them in any way, shape or form.

  12. nvl004 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:35 PM

    I am sure the names will be from all the teams i dislike.

    • 18thstreet - Aug 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

      You’ve got it all wrong.

      There will be players on your favorite team there, but they had a very good reason. And they never did it again. They’re not the bad guys.

  13. hojo20 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:40 PM

    hopefully Biggio & Bagwell are on there in some way.

    • numbertenox - Aug 6, 2014 at 4:37 PM

      Why? Did one of them grope your sister?

  14. chris3141084 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:46 PM

    What if Jeter is on the list?? The horror.

  15. chip56 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:56 PM

    I said it yesterday – and want to make clear that I have no hard evidence to back it up – but I wouldn’t be shocked if Robinson Cano is on the list.

    He was very close with Alex, Melky, Jesus Montero and Frankie Cervelli when they were all with the Yankees. That group used to spend the offseason working out in South Florida and the Dominican together.

    Again, not saying he is on the list – just that I wouldn’t be shocked.

    • slappymcknucklepunch - Aug 7, 2014 at 2:15 AM

      Hate the Yankees,but so what. Are you gonna throw Cano out there for”guilt by association”?
      Pitchers use too.So do the bench players,the relievers etc. If you are a superstar or a scrub,you want to get paid.Whatever gets you the life you wish. I have no problemn with testing but I am not naive enough to believe the upper-tier players are using whatever makes them think they are the best.

      FFS,All it really does is give you a little recovery time. Not turn you into Bonds.

      • chip56 - Aug 7, 2014 at 11:45 AM

        I think I was pretty clear about the links that I think make Cano a candidate to be on the list. Not one of them had anything to do with his ability. The fact that he spent winters training with four players who were previously named as being clients of biogenesis is a pretty big red flag – as is the fact that the woman who runs his charity was on their client list.

        Again, that’s not to say he did anything – just that I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that he did.

  16. pete2112 - Aug 6, 2014 at 3:57 PM

    I also love the fact you decided to use a picture of Cervelli, a back up catcher for the Yankees and not someone like Nelson Cruz who’s hitting the cover off the ball and was also suspended last season.

    • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:46 PM

      Cruz wRC+ by month:

      Mar/Apr: 162
      May: 206
      Jun: 78
      Jul: 80
      Aug: -4

      He’s slowed down significantly from the first two months of the season.

      • pete2112 - Aug 7, 2014 at 7:29 AM

        And your point? I just thought it was funny that he wouldn’t use a photo of a guy who has put up huge numbers this season who was also part of the Biogenisis suspensions last season. It doesn’t matter that his production has slowed, his numbers are still better than anyone on the Yankees and certainly don’t compare to Cervelli’s.

  17. chip56 - Aug 6, 2014 at 4:11 PM

    As an aside: Craig, if you don’t think that the latest round of players who will be named in the Biogenesis case is newsworthy – don’t write columns about it.

  18. devilsmetsgiants - Aug 6, 2014 at 5:45 PM

    Brett Gardner

    • pete2112 - Aug 7, 2014 at 7:30 AM

      Really?

  19. randomjoeblow - Aug 6, 2014 at 6:58 PM

    Oh no, there are going to be more PED players being named again

    “It’s getting really hard to keep defending all of the guys who have been purposely cheating year after year.”

    There, I fixed Craig’s headline and lede..

    • randomjoeblow - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:13 PM

      I originally had HTML tags to make it more clear…sure would be nice to have the ability to edit your comments.

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:46 PM

        No, your comment was dumb enough without the need for an edit.

      • slappymcknucklepunch - Aug 7, 2014 at 2:18 AM

        There is a case for an edit function,your case is not it

  20. chip56 - Aug 6, 2014 at 7:59 PM

    One would think that name-naming is the entire purpose of Major League Baseball’s PED enforcement.

    As I understand it MLB has nothing to do with these latest names coming out – that they are the result of the charges pending against Bosch and the others.

    Beyond that – as has often been pointed out, MLB is not part of the judicial system – they don’t have the power to go after people like Bosch, they do have the power to go after the players violating their rules.

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