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An Ohio legislator pushes a resolution encouraging the Indians to change their name, drop Chief Wahoo

Aug 8, 2014, 8:23 AM EST

Ohio statehouse

I don’t think the government has a role in making the Indians drop Chief Wahoo or change their name. The team is a private business and it can do what it wants to. But I have no problem with it passing non-binding resolutions as a means of attempting to move public support. That’s what one Ohio senator has done in the state legislature:

Eric Kearney, a Democrat from Cincinnati, introduced a resolution Wednesday that would encourage the baseball team to adopt a new name and mascot, citing racial insensitivity. He also sent a letter to Indians owner Lawrence Dolan urging a change.

The legislature is on summer break, actually, so no one is gonna do anything with this. And it seems that the Indians are in no mood to do anything with Wahoo. Team president Mark Shapiro — not responding to this resolution, but speaking in an unrelated press conference yesterday — said this:

“[Chief Wahoo] represents the heritage of the team and the ballpark” and will remain in place. He added that the team will continue to build and promote the use of the block “C.”

I guess you can try to have it both ways — minimizing Wahoo’s presence officially, promoting the block C but still selling merch with Wahoo on it and not alienating fans — as long as you want. But at some point it’s even worse to take this tack, isn’t it? To essentially lie about the racist mascot as officially representing the team when it does so less and less but being happy to cynically use it for marking purposes among fans who would chafe at its removal.

Maybe someday the Indians should take a stand and either give the thing the organization’s full-throated endorsement or else get rid of it altogether?

158 Comments (Feed for Comments)
  1. stoutfiles - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:28 AM

    And another elected official ignores real work to get on the PR bandwagon.

    • jarathen - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:38 AM

      Paying attention to one issue does not automatically mean other issues are being ignored. That’s like saying people shouldn’t eat because drinking water is more important.

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:14 AM

        @jarathen: whereas that would most likely be true of a working person, it is far less likely to be true of a politician.

    • asimonetti88 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:30 AM

      “But I have no problem with it passing non-binding resolutions as a means of attempting to move public support.”

      This quote from the article got me. If there’s anything that will make people more likely to support a name change, it’s Congress supporting it. Because people love Congress.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 1:59 PM

        How does everyone feel about the Ohio legislature?

    • hoopmatch - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:06 PM

      Why not just change the name to Native Americans?

  2. ch0psuey - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:34 AM

    Whew. real news going on here. Back up everyone.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:58 AM

      Yeah, I see you working hard there. That was some comment. I bet it took you forever to craft your very insightful points about this issue. If only, as you point out, everyone else worked as hard to make thoughtful statements. The world would be a better place. Thank you.

  3. Ayase Yano (綾瀬市 矢野) - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:37 AM

    Who the hell is Chief Wahoo?

    • jarathen - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:41 AM

      He’s only the literal face of the franchise, with this incarnation being in use since 1951.

      • Ayase Yano (綾瀬市 矢野) - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:45 AM

        Wow! That long? Man, probably a serious issue brewing.

    • silversun60 - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:47 AM

      http://bit.ly/IUrGLH

      • Ayase Yano (綾瀬市 矢野) - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:55 AM

        Thanks, I see no sources of that here. The site’s been full of Katakana and Hiragana writings lately.

  4. nottinghamforest13 - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:41 AM

    Excellent work. No need to push for legislation that would improve the living conditions on reservations. This will help Indians far better.

    • Detroit Michael - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:26 AM

      To the best of my knowledge, there are no Indian reservations in the state of Ohio.

      http://www.nps.gov/nagpra/documents/ResMAP.HTM

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:49 AM

        That can’t be true, there are casinos there.

      • lazlosother - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:42 AM

        Reservations are not rrequired to have Tribe owned Casinos. Iowa has no reservations, but there are several Tribe owned Casinos.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:00 AM

      So, instead you want to see a resolution supporting returning Ohio lands to the remaining members of the previous inhabitants?

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:16 AM

        I’d vote for that!

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:49 AM

        Michigan used to own them but not so much anymore.

    • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:21 AM

      @nottingham: I think you’re missing the point here. The racism incipient in American culture works to diminish any prevailing sense of importance, moral or economic, of assisting or redressing legitimate grievances of a minority, any minority. Getting rid of caricaturish and demeaning mascots like Chief Wahoo helps to erode that racism, and the dialogue that emerges about such disgraces, especially when they’re so embedded in local culture, helps to keep the real moral issues alive in public consciousness. As long as the persistence of derisive icons like lawn jonkies and Chief Wahoo supports the sense that racism is only a semi-serious issue, real responses to the real problems of minorities will remain fewer and further between. I’m OK with this resolution even if, like you, I’m not OK with the pace of genuine reform.

      • nottinghamforest13 - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:05 AM

        You’re probably right. Those of Irish descent in America have been unable to lead productive lives as a result of Notre Dame.

      • supersnappy - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:14 AM

        Irish folks had to put up with a lot of undeserved trouble 100 years ago. Native folks still have to deal with a lot of undeserved trouble today. I think the difference between the two things is pretty obvious

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:25 AM

        Irish folks did indeed have their problems. Many of them won their citizenship at the expense of having to volunteer for the Union Army in the Civil War – hardly what you’d call a warm welcome from their benevolent hosts.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:30 AM

        That might be why the leprechaun doesn’t have a goofy smile all over his face.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:35 AM

        He probably would have if there had been coeds at the school when he was created.

      • nolanwiffle - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:36 AM

        Are American Indians really discriminated against in this country in the year 2014? If yes, how so?

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:44 AM

        Are American Indians really discriminated against in this country in the year 2014? If yes, how so?

        I’d organize a group of them, but this country tried to wipe them off the face of the earth so it’s a bit hard.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:47 AM

        Must have missed that in the news recently. Can you please site a recent reference on this please.

      • ewyorksockexchange - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:50 AM

        @Nottingham-

        The biggest difference is that the Fighting Irish nickname was developed by Irish Catholics at ND as a defiant response to racism against the Irish throughout America. Chief Wahoo and the Indians name were developed by a bunch of white guys trying to figure out what to call and how to represent the team that they owned. I think those two different origins make a world of difference.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:07 PM

        The leprechaun is a figure from Irish folklore (like a fairy or troll). It was not originated by Notre Dame. They picked it because of its representation in that folklore. It does NOT represent Irish people generally.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:43 PM

        Kind of like Wahoo then

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:49 PM

        Wahoo is NOT, NOT, NOT a figure from Indian folklore.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:52 PM

        It does NOT represent Native American people generally., EITHER

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:01 PM

        Except that it represents the “Indians.”

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:11 PM

        That’s the Cleveland Indians baseball team. Kind of like the Tiger Detroit uses doesn’t represent all Tigers.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:30 PM

        Oh, which tiger does it represent?

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:51 PM

        Supposedly your favorite team.

    • bfunk1978 - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:18 PM

      straw man is that you can only do one or the other. Why not both?

  5. janessa31888 - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:44 AM

    Cleveland Spiders, here we come!! Woohoo!! Rename Progressive field “Shelob’s Lair” or “The Web”

    • renaado - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:48 AM

      I’m goin for Cleveland Templars. Seems like a cool name.

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:27 AM

        Yeah, me too. But before you spring for that, you ought to check out how Ishmael Reed handled their latterday incarnation led by the doughty Hinkle Von Vampton in Mumbo Jumbo. And remember, don’t eat with your hands. Use your entrenching tool.

      • renaado - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:32 AM

        Net search time!

    • rcali - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:39 AM

      How about “The Cleveland Hookers?” Fishing is pretty big in Lake Erie, which is just a casual walk from the ballpark.

    • bfunk1978 - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:19 PM

      Still hoping for the Steamers, and their logo could be a steamboat. Or not.

  6. nottinghamforest13 - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:46 AM

    Why is everything related to Indians off-limits? They had the opportunity to defend their territory, they fought, they lost. Considering how most civilizations turn out after such a defeat, they actually made out pretty well.

    • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:59 AM

      Considering how most civilizations turn out after such a defeat, they actually made out pretty well.

      /facepalm

      • Paper Lions - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:06 AM

        He didn’t go off on some racist Bo Porter rant, isn’t that progress? Well…maybe not.

      • indaburg - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:24 PM

        That line made me choke on my sandwich. Reading comments while eating lunch is dangerous.

    • mensad - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:07 AM

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Native_American_genocide

    • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:29 AM

      @Nottingham: yeah, and that’s really nothing compared to how well the Jews have fared since 1945, is it?

      Good grief, what an imbecile you are.

  7. southpaw2k - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:50 AM

    Leave it to politicians to be offended on behalf of regular people who aren’t.

    • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:30 AM

      If you don’t think “regular people” aren’t, you’ve got your head pretty snugly jammed up your rectum. Unless, of course, you think witless bigots are “regular people.”

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:33 AM

        Typo. If you think regular people aren’t…

        Which of course begs the question why this is a major issue. It’s an issue because “regular people” have become more conscious – got that concept? Conscious? – of just how demeaning, self-demeaning as well as demeaning of others, caricatures like Chief Wahoo really are.

  8. tribefever - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:51 AM

    Eric Kearney should worry about paying his taxes. The scumbag should be in jail.

    • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:34 AM

      Okay, let’s do away with the justice system and just incarcerate public officials we don’t like. Sorry, “regular people” elected him. Until they un-elect him, or until he’s actually indicted for something, he’s doing his job – or, well, some of it, anyway.

      But it’s refreshing to know that there’s at least one correspondent here who always pays every penny of taxes that he’s supposed to.

      • asimonetti88 - Aug 8, 2014 at 4:58 PM

        I think it’s less about not liking him, and more about him owing over $1 million in back taxes.

  9. thomas844 - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:59 AM

    Back in the day, Nap Lajoie was the best player on Cleveland’s team, prompting the name “Cleveland Naps” for a while. Perhaps today’s team can be the “Cleveland Klubers”

  10. foreverbeachflorida - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:00 AM

    “It’s now very common to hear people say, ‘I’m offended by that’. As if that gives them certain rights. It’s really nothing more than a whine, it is an expression with no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no legitimacy; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. ‘I am offended by that’. Well, so f@#%ing what.”

    ~~Stephen Fry, British writer & activist

    • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:04 AM

      GTFO, British imperialists. — Gandhi

      • jwbiii - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:00 PM

        Odd you should mention that. The United Church of Christ, the descendants of the Puritans, are among the groups that have endorsed the retirement of Native American names, mascots and logos from sports. They were certainly among the first agents British imperialism on this continent.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:02 PM

        I mentioned it to illustrate that the Brits do not have the best record on sensitivity to minorities. It’s nice to see their American descendants want to repudiate that stance.

    • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:42 AM

      Stephen Fry was on the receiving end of such “I’m offended” as a gay person who remain closeted most of his life, until a young adult, so that comment cuts several ways. He’s also been a champion activist as a Jew for Palestinian rights, gay rights, and a critic of right-wing Polish Catholicism for its complicity in the Polish death camps during WWII, all of which has gotten him into hot water at one time or another.

      You’re either too dense to see the textures to Fry’s comments, or you’re simply misrepresenting them to suit your own moral lassitude on this question.

      • foreverbeachflorida - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:56 AM

        No, Old Gator, Stephen Fry is spot on with his quote. Certainly nothing wrong with arguing an issue on its merits, such as actual discrimination, cause and effect, etc.. But to allow the very subjective notion of ‘being offended’ to dictate national policy is painfully ridiculous. The feminization of the American male is all but a fait accomplis.

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:14 AM

        Yes, his quote was spot on – taken in context. Again, he knows all too well that his homosexuality was “offensive” to many, or that his support of Arabs was “offensive” to many, even to other minorites, and I doubt very much if he experiences that sense of offense as trivial. However, your use of it to try and trivialize an important discussion is the problem. Caricaturization of Native Americans is not a superficial matter. It’s deeply ingrained in our culture and that repulsive mascot is indicative of that. Your rhetorical gambit of “fait accompli” gives away your intellectually and ethically lethargic conviction that there’s anything trivial about this discussion. There’s not. And your belief that an awakened consciousness of bigotry within the culture is indicative of “feminization” would be reprehensible if it weren’t so downright stupid.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:35 AM

        EVERYONE KNOWS IF YOU GET RID OF RACIST CARICATURES, YOU SPROUT OVARIES!!!! IT’S THE END OF D!CKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:00 AM

    Eric Kearney should be thrown out of office for wasting taxpayer time and money.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:06 AM

      Are you equally opposed to all of the legislators who spent time passing things like same-sex marriage bans and other laws that get struck down? That’s a huge waste of taxpayer money. You have no idea how much my state wastes defending laws that they should know will not pass scrutiny — and they will admit that they know things will fail.

      • asimonetti88 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:33 AM

        He’s literally a waste of taxpayer time and money, considering he owes over $1 million in taxes.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/12/04/worst-rollout-of-the-year-ohio-candidate-owes-1-million-in-back-taxes/

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:43 AM

        Then he’s not wasting it. It’s earning interest.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:54 AM

        Nope, those usually involve real life people and not cartoons. Maybe he can pass something regarding The Simpsons next.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:36 AM

        Native Americans are real. Maybe that’s what you don’t get. They still exist. Wooooooooooo.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:43 AM

        White people like Homer are real. Maybe that’s what you don’t get. They still exist. Wooooooooooo

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:46 AM

        What team is he the mascot for? I am unfamiliar.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:49 AM

        So pc only is relevant to mascots. Missed that memo.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:00 PM

        No, we are discussing a racist mascot. You missed that.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 1:05 PM

        Actually we are talking about a legislator (and others) trying to tell people we should all be overly pc like them.

    • Craig Calcaterra - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:32 AM

      I used to represent the Ohio Legislature when laws were challenged for their unconstitutionality. Like, that was LITERALLY my job. If you knew how many BS laws and resolutions get passed you’d freak. And I say this with 100% objectivity on the matter: the vast, vast majority of them come from the party in power. The Republicans have controlled the Ohio Legislature for a long, long time.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:42 PM

        Said the far left leaning Craig Calcaterra.

      • asimonetti88 - Aug 8, 2014 at 5:01 PM

        Both Democrats and Republicans are wastes of time that pass BS laws and resolutions. Arguing that one passes more than the other is like arguing which porta-potty is more full.

      • thomas844 - Aug 9, 2014 at 12:30 AM

        So you’re 100% objective…. but you’re calling the laws and resolutions that have been passed “BS.” That’s a pretty subjective term last time I checked.

  12. jwbiii - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:37 AM

    The Braves retired their laughing brave arm patch logo (1957-71) with very little fanfare that I was aware of. It seems that the Indians wish to dig in and take the PR hits.

    • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:48 AM

      Was there a lot of social media with which to provide fan fare in 1971?

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:08 AM

        If only they could’ve complained on Twitter — we’d have been spared Disco Demolition night!

      • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:12 AM

        I feel like we missed something by not having Twitter when Rickey Henderson or Jose Canseco were playing.

    • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:53 AM

      I’m guessing that was by choice

    • goodellisruiningtheleague - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:29 PM

      But continue using the “Chop” which many native americans find offensive as well

  13. rbj1 - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:40 AM

    Since when is the word “Indian” a vile, racist term?

    • jwbiii - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:43 AM

      It’s not the name, it’s the logo. Opposite of the Redskins.

      • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:46 AM

        I’m trying to figure out what’s racist about a smiling Indian.

      • rbj1 - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:59 AM

        “Eric Kearney, a Democrat from Cincinnati, introduced a resolution Wednesday that would encourage the baseball team to adopt a new name and mascot”

        A new name. It’s not just the mascot.

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:45 AM

        It’s the mascot. Unfortunately, a comparatively benign term like “Indian” is guilty by association in this particular case with that loathsome mascot.

      • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:51 AM

        The Indians themselves say Chief Wahoo is integral to the team’s heritage and the team’s name. In light of that argument, it makes complete sense to change the name regardless of whether or not the term “Indian” is racist or offensive in some other context. When a racist, offensive caricature is integral to the team’s heritage maybe you should just start form scratch.

  14. jimmyt - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:43 AM

    I’m still offended that Obi-Wan refers to Tusken Raiders as “sand people”. Talk about insensitivity!

    • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:44 AM

      hahahahahha

    • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:10 AM

      It wasn’t funny last time either.

      • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:13 AM

        I can’t speak to last time but it was funny this time.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:15 AM

        No offense, chip, but you can’t even figure out why the logo is obnoxious. Of course you think it’s funny.

      • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:33 AM

        I understand why native americans would be offended by it, I just don’t find it particularly offensive.

        What I have been pretty consistent about is that I find it offensive to focus in on these cosmetic issues rather than the actual racism that Native Americans (and other minorities) face.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:36 AM

        You can take a two-pronged approach to solving the problem. And, it doesn’t even make any sense to say you don’t find something offensive but you understand why the insulted party would. That’s basically just saying you know it’s wrong but you don’t care. Which is the opposite of wanting to help them as you claim in your latter sentiment.

      • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:39 AM

        That’s just it – I don’t know that it’s wrong just as I don’t know that an old Bugs Bunny cartoon where he impersonates a caricature of an Indian is wrong because I try to look at things in the context of when they were created.

        More to the point, caricatures by nature are supposed to be over the top. It’s not like Wahoo has a bottle of booze hanging from his mouth. He’s smiling. Yes the teeth are big but so what?

      • asimonetti88 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:36 AM

        Wow talk about insensitive! I guess you’ve completely forgotten about the Great Tusken Massacre.

      • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:47 AM

        Sorry Chip – that you don’t see how “cosmetic” issues are significant is just a function of your own oft-demonstrated density.

      • jimmyt - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:51 AM

        It’s pretty funny if you take it for what it is. Poking fun of the over-the-top political correctness overrunning this country. Humor is a lot like art, if you don’t get it you weren’t meant to.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:56 AM

        We could be offended by Homer too but we aren’t because that would be stupid.

      • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:01 AM

        “I try to look at things in the context of when they were created.”

        Yea, I mean, those people who participated in lynching back in the days weren’t so bad when you think about the context in which they were raised and the era in which they lived.

        “not like Wahoo has a bottle of booze hanging from his mouth. He’s smiling.”

        You’re right. We should really just be thankful that Wahoo isn’t more racist. This is all the more true when you think about the context in which Chief Wahoo was created. There were probably far worse caricatures being circulated at the time. Maybe we should even be applauding the Indians for not choosing a worse caricature of a Native American. You know given the context of when it was created.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:40 AM

        ^^^ Brilliant.

      • dsaverno - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:48 AM

        @chip. I live in Cleveland and am an Indians fan. I choose not to wear any team gear that has the Chief on it. Perhaps the picture in this article may change your opinion about the mascot. I believe it is long overdue to retire him.

        http://www.clevescene.com/64-and-counting/archives/2010/04/26/1897471-scientific-study-looking-at-chief-wahoo-will-make-you-hate-asians

  15. chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 9:47 AM

    The guy represents Cincy so he’s probably just doing it because he’s a Reds fan. A name that I as a Russian American find highly offensive.

    • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:26 AM

      A name that I as a Russian American find highly offensive.

      Huh?

      • chip56 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:34 AM

        Russians in the 50s and 60s were called Reds based on the flag of the Soviet Union – hence the phrase “better dead than red”

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:53 AM

        Oh for some reason I thought you were referring to the Cincy part, which confused me.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:45 AM

        Yes, it was so kind of Americans to oblige the Soviets and begin using their preferred nickname for reference. They would’ve been so insulted if we walked around saying “Better dead than Soviet.” Naming a baseball team after what they called themselves, though — that’s…oh, you’re confused. Hey, that might have worked better as a critique if the team hadn’t actually changed it’s name for a period specifically to avoid the Reds connection…and if the Soviets actually called themselves “Reds.”

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:46 AM

        Which actually makes the comment dumber, since the Cincinnati Reds were established well before the Bolshevik Revolution.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:06 PM

        Then they definitely would have had to change their name from the “Cleveland Bolsheviki.”

  16. ud1951 - Aug 8, 2014 at 10:42 AM

    “But I have no problem with it passing non-binding resolutions as a means of attempting to move public support.”

    They tend not to do that. And politicians who get too far ahead of actual public sentiment are rarely successful. There is a reason Bill Clinton is still popular, there is a lot to be said for elected representatives actually representing the views of the majority of folks who voted in his district.

    • Old Gator - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:21 AM

      There are two questions here: whether or not this particular politician is really “too far ahead” of his constituency (I doubt it), and whether or not it’s necessary at times for a political leader to lead as well as merely to “represent” the current conventional wisdom (it is). Genuinely motivated politicians – meaning, those who husband a semblance of idealism or conviction in some little corner of their souls not already indentured to their big corporate pimps – are sometimes willing to risk being turned out by the voters to begin making a point. Think of the level of support for gay marriage back when congress passed its reprehensibly bigoted and Orwellianly titled “Defense of Marriage Act.” Things have shifted mightily, but someone had to be willing to be out ahead of popular opinion. Deeply held biases don’t merely yield to osmosis.

      • wpjohnson - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:48 AM

        Deeply held beliefs don’t change to suit the times. You call it “biases”. I call it non negotiable tenets of life. Your brand of osmosis is destroying the country.

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:01 PM

        Your brand of osmosis is destroying the country.

        How exactly is the country being destroyed again by changing “deeply held beliefs”?

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:16 PM

        The awesome thing about that is that he thinks Clinton was not leading when in fact, he was leading on gay rights (Don’t ask, don’t tell) — and DOMA was a response to that in part.

        OG, I had no idea you had a permeable membrane, btw. Frankly, I really imagined you as a strictly ejaculative type.

  17. wpjohnson - Aug 8, 2014 at 11:44 AM

    Obviously it was a dumbass Democrat who probably has about as much skill in throwing a baseball as does the fairy, Obama.

  18. mlbfan8898 - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:22 PM

    As a non Mexican, I’m offended by Padres. I really hope action is taken because it’s clear that the PC police need something to occupy their time with.

    • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 1:50 PM

      Their objection here is not with the use of English. Pick it up.

    • twinfan24 - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:39 PM

      Ridiculous argument just trying to throw off the point at hand. But, beyond that, what does being non-Mexican have to do with anything? The Padres mascot is a friar. Padre as a word has Italian, Spanish, and Portugese roots. It is often used to mean priest.

      So, are you implying that because Spanish is spoken in Mexico, that the Padre team name is only referring to those in Mexico, even though the word originally came from other countries? Ridiculous.

  19. blabidibla - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:23 PM

    Just another front of the war on white people*

    *desperate need for the sarcasm font.

    • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:51 PM

      The sad thing is there are comments on here that are actually making that point which makes the sarcastic font necessary.

  20. stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:41 PM

    I am a regular person. And I think this Chief Wahoo bulls h i t is just that…bull s h i t.
    Far bigger fish to fry. How about we focus on making the living conditions of Indians better on their respective reservations? How about we focus on education, jobs, substance abuse, spousal abuse, etc…? In lieu of this…we just keep pounding the stupid drum and subsequently spinning our wheels.

    I made a promise to myself that I would not comment on anymore of these articles. I obviously broke that promise. But this issue pisses me off. Pisses me off for far different reasons than 95% of my HBT friends. It’s a sonofabitchin’ mascot. A mascot! And don’t give me any crap about racially charged mascots being okay in my book. Because i do NOT find this mascot racially charged. As a result, that angle will fall on deaf ears. You gotta’ come with something better than that. I am waiting…

    • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 1:03 PM

      “I am a regular person.”
      As opposed to an irregular person? A regular bear? I wish you were a regular bear (or heck an irregular bear) because having a regular bear commenting on HBT would be awesome.
      Or is the regular in reference to your bowel movements? If so I don’t see what this has to do with the rest of your comment, but thanks.

      “How about we focus on making the living conditions of Indians better on their respective reservations…education, jobs, substance abuse…?
      As has been pointed out every time a regular person has made this argument, we can focus on numerous things at once. It’s not ever that hard really. Then again perhaps only irregular people or regular bears can do this.

      “Because i do NOT find this mascot racially charged.”
      So you think racially charged mascots are okay?

      “As a result, that angle will fall on deaf ears.”
      I suspect any argument that Chief Wahoo should go away would fall on deaf ears when it comes to you.

      “You gotta’ come with something better than that.”
      Who is the arbiter of what qualifies as something better? You? That doesn’t seem fair as I think you may be a bit biased when it comes to this topic give how apparently pissed you are.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:02 PM

        Mr. Obvious…
        My “regular person” reference directly pertained to several previous “regular person” posts by others. See above posts.

        As for handling several things at once…
        This is comical. Our elected officials handle NOTHING well. Government (in general) is the most inefficient machine on the planet. So…how about focusing on something with teeth considering how incredibly inefficient they are on an every day basis?

        Since it is ME looking for a compelling argument against/for Chief Wahoo it would be ME who is the arbitrator. See how that works? My mind can be changed. I love a good, compelling argument. I am more of a moderate with middle/right leanings. However, (and this is going to come as a shocker)…there are several agendas on the left that I agree with and could champion. I know…I know. Impossible huh?

      • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:53 PM

        What do you mean your regular person comment pertains to other posts above? Are you mocking them, are you disputing their characterization of what regular persons believe. There certainly is no indication it is anything other than how you actually view yourself.

        It’s such nonsense that our elected officials handle nothing well. And if it’s true that they are the most inefficient machine on the planet why would you want them to take on serious issues? Wouldn’t they just mess those up? And wouldn’t that have rather serious consequences?

        I’m dubious that your mind can be changed and it has nothing to do with your political leanings or lack thereof. It seems unlikely that I can convince you that Wahoo should go away when you don’t find Wahoo offensive and that the topic is BS and he’s just a mascot (ie this is not important) So I’m going to convince you to oppose something that you think is completely benign in every sense of the word.
        Nevertheless I’ll take you at your word. I think we can agree that some people (however large or small that group may be) find Wahoo offensive. You also seem to think mascots are silly and meaningless. In light of the fact that you don’ t particularly care about Chief Wahoo and others do care and find him offensive, why not just get rid of him? You lose nothing of any value while others get to feel better because this particular racist caricature no longer exists.

      • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 3:17 PM

        Ughhh…that last post was a mess.

        This is what you are saying to people who find Wahoo offensive: “You know thing that bothers you and you find offensive? Well I think it’s not important, but I’m going to keep doing it anyway even though you seem to care about it and find it to be important.”

        So if you keep sporting and supporting Wahoo there are a few possible explanations:
        1) You’re a complete jerk. Why else do something you know bothers people and which is unimportant to you?
        2) You actually think keeping Wahoo is important despite your claims to the contrary (this would make you a liar).
        3) You think people are lying when they say the care about Wahoo and find him offensive.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 3:50 PM

        What do you mean what do I mean? See? I can do that too!

        Of course I am referring to the previous posts in which people stated “regular people” find this offensive.

        You would win far more arguments if you stopped (or at least toned down) the patronizing attitude. That, coupled with your claiming ignorance isn’t allowing you to get your points accoss very well.

      • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 4:17 PM

        “You would win far more arguments if you stopped (or at least toned down) the patronizing attitude.”

        Says the guy who ended his first post with “I’m waiting…”

        I’ll make my point in 2 sentences: You claim that to you this is BS and there are much more important things. Why continue to support something that indisputably offends some people when it’s not important to you?

    • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 1:29 PM

      Far bigger fish to fry.

      It’s not a zero sum game though. Nothing is stopping people from doing both.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 1:58 PM

        And, also, you can’t have a true commitment to helping people if you do not have basic respect for them. To prove that, everyone should try calling their spouses insulting names and see how much consideration it gets them and how special it makes their spouses feel.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:04 PM

        It isn’t working Church. That is my point. Huge waste of time. As I mentioned in another reply, let’s focus on something with some teeth. Something that is hard hitting and truly matters. The warm fuzzy feeling that results in the removal of Chief Wahoo will have no ass…if you will (in my opinion).

      • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 3:19 PM

        It isn’t working Church. That is my point. Huge waste of time.

        Playing Devil’s Advocate here, but if we can’t get the “easy” stuff done, what makes you think that we can do the difficult stuff?

    • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 1:51 PM

      Did someone say “fish fry”?

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:02 PM

        Lol! Nothing beats bluegill. Mmmmm good.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:03 PM

        You mean: catfish.

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:07 PM

        Hahaha! Not even close. Catfish makes me sick. I mean…physically ill. But after all, they are bottom feeders and taste like a muddy stick.
        How can it NOT make me sick?
        Full disclosure: It’s not that I don’t want to like it. I try it ever couple of years as the taste buds change as we age. And last year I tried it…and promptly through it back up. And my Mother has a closely guarded recipe everyone raves about and I still can’t eat hers. Nasty ass catfish. Ugh…

  21. blabidibla - Aug 8, 2014 at 12:49 PM

    Living conditions on reservations are on the rise, mostly due to casino money. they are using that money to focus on education, jobs, substance abuse, etc…

    Next step, respect. If you don’t find Wahoo a racial caricature, you are correct in your assessment that you are deaf to the issue. Blind too.

    • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:13 PM

      I guess I am deaf and blind then. Cause’ I see a happy-go-lucky Indian.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:27 PM

        Some people just look harder for the trouble they want to find.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:42 PM

        Yes, you do, grumps.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 2:53 PM

        I’m far from the pc crowd trying to stir up Wahoo and Redskins drama. Take a look in the mirror.

      • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 3:25 PM

        “Some people just look harder for the trouble they want to find.”

        And some people see what they want to see.

        See I can type trite and pithy comments, too.

      • grumpyoleman - Aug 8, 2014 at 3:38 PM

        And some people stay in the vast minority no matter what trite and pithy crap they type.

      • ashot - Aug 8, 2014 at 4:19 PM

        Oh an appeal to authority!

      • stlouis1baseball - Aug 8, 2014 at 5:29 PM

        Lol! I am not even sure what the hell that means. But I did chuckle…strangely. \Anywho…it’s pretty simple from where I sit. I do NOT necessarily support Chief Wahoo. I just don’t find it racist/offensive. Again…I see a happy-go-lucky Indian. Dudes cheesin’ like Chester Freaking Cheetos in fact!
        But (admittedly)…I don’t seek out rage for the sake of rage. You are new around here so I will cut you some slack. Your point with regards to people finding it offensive…so why would I “support” it has some merit. But again…I don’t “support it.” It’s just that I don’t personally know one single Indian that finds it offensive. The only people I see bitching about it are pasty assed Crackers. There-in lies the rub.

  22. mlbfan8898 - Aug 8, 2014 at 3:21 PM

    How exactly does the team name affect you personally and keep you up at night? Seems like there are more important issues in the world than a silly name.

    • [citation needed] fka COPO - Aug 8, 2014 at 5:46 PM

      Most of us, by the time we reach double digits in age learn to concern ourselves with more than one thing at a time.

      • yankeessuckameanone - Aug 8, 2014 at 7:28 PM

        COPO, you’re the biggest child on here. You always feel the need to belittle people that you don’t agree with. You are a smug person who thinks he knows everything. Go crawl back into your think tank and leave the mocking of others to those on here who won’t use ridiculous facts about why they’re wrong, just to make themselves sound more smart.

      • mlbfan8898 - Aug 8, 2014 at 7:35 PM

        Be nice to fka. No-it-alls get there feelings hurt easily when someone calls them out.

      • historiophiliac - Aug 8, 2014 at 8:30 PM

        Aww, he thinks you live in a think tank.

  23. bajamex - Aug 8, 2014 at 3:32 PM

    I see you finally realized that talking about the Indians and not mentioning racism and Chief Wahoo doesn’t get you many clicks.

    Tomorrow or even later today: why a male got the GM job with the Padres and not Ng.

    • asimonetti88 - Aug 8, 2014 at 5:08 PM

      That was up here a few days ago, keep up now.

  24. mikeevergreen - Aug 15, 2014 at 4:24 PM

    What are they going to call them? You can’t call them Browns or Cavaliers, they’re taken. Next best thing the town’s known for is a burning river. It’s either Polluters or River Burners.

    Best keep it Indians.

    Remember the legislator is from Cincinnati, their team name is Reds, short for Communists.

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