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And That Happened: Tuesday’s scores and highlights

Apr 9, 2014, 6:18 AM EDT

Ryan Braun AP

Brewers 10, Phillies 4: Wouldn’t you know it? Ryan Braun picks yesterday to go back on steroids! Or at least that’s what I assume Phillies fans are thinking this morning. Three homers and seven RBI for a guy a lot of people think didn’t know how to play baseball before taking PEDs but, you know, clearly did. In other news, Braun was booed lustily while Marlon Byrd was treated just fine by the hometown crowd. But sure, let’s pretend that people booing Braun is all about morality and not blind team loyalty.

Dodgers 3, Tigers 2: Carl Crawford with the RBI double to win it in the 10th. I think Brad Ausmus is learning that maybe the Joba ChamberlainPhil Coke bullpen combo is not his best go-to option in extra innings when the game is on the line. Also, a rough game for Torii Hunter. He leaves the game with a knee contusion AND he has Vin Scully talk about his dad being a crack addict during one of his at bats.

Giants 7, Diamondbacks 3: Tim Hudson allowed two earned runs over eight in his Giants home debut and Brandon Belt looked amazingly like Barry Bonds with his first inning homer.

Rangers 10, Red Sox 7: The Sox outhit the Rangers 14-13, but they also grounded into five double plays. Which kind of kills your momentum.

Orioles 14, Yankees 5: Twenty hits, including homers from Delmon Young, Adam Jones and Matt Weiters. The stadium was half empty. Half of the starters were gone towards the end of the game. There’s nothing sadder in Yankee Stadium than apathy.

Nationals 5, Marlins 0: Gio Gonzalez and four relievers toss the shutout. Anthony Rendon had an RBI single and an RBI double.

Blue Jays 5, Astros 2: Melky Cabrera has homered in four straight games. That’s another player that, you know, actually knows how to play baseball despite the “he’s a PED creation” narrative.

Mets 4, Braves 0: The Braves celebrated the 40th anniversary of Hank Aaron’s 715th home run by getting their butts shut the hell out by Bartolo Colon, Kyle Farnsworth and Jose Valverde. I hope Hank shot some seriously disapproving looks down from his luxury box as the evening wore on. It would have been better had he taken a bat and showed these jackwagons how to hit. In other news, this is my new spirit animal.

Indians 8, Padres 6:  David Murphy hit a three-run homer and had four RBI. When were one of you guys going to tell me David Murphy played for the Indians? Jeez, dudes, I thought we were friends here.

Editor’s Note: Hardball Talk‘s partner FanDuel is hosting a one-day $40,000 Fantasy Baseball league for Wednesday’s evening MLB games. It’s $25 to join and first prize is $6,000. Starts at 7:05pm ET on WednesdayHere’s the FanDuel link.

White Sox 15, Rockies 3: Jose Abreu and Avisail Garcia each hit two homers and the White Sox hit six in all. Nineteen total hits. Just another day in Denver.

Cardinals 7, Reds 5: Lance Lynn spotted the Reds four early runs but the Cards got ’em right back. Matt Holliday hit the go-ahead RBI double. Yadier Molina homered and Peter Bourjos had three hits and an RBI of his own. The Reds are certainly digging quite a hole for themselves early.

Mariners 5, Angels 3: Corey Hart hit two homer in his home debut for the Mariners. With that, every single team has now played a home game. So this is the last of the lining up on the foul lines for introductions until the All-Star Game, I reckon.

Pirates 7, Cubs 6: Quite a lot of two-homer days for players yesterday, with Starlin Castro doing it too. But the Pirates ended up on the winning side of this see-saw battle. They blew leads of of 4-0 and 6-4 before prevailing on a Russell Martin sac fly in the eighth. Which is the equivalent of being the low kid on the see-saw and then getting off to let the other kid slam their butt on the ground.

Rays 1, Royals 0: Chris Archer and Yordano Ventura provided a nice young pitchers duel, shutting out the opposition for seven and six innings, respectively. James Loney‘s RBI single with two outs in the bottom of the ninth provided the game’s only score. In other news, someone please tell me how a 1-0 game can go three hours and thirteen minutes.

  1. chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 6:36 AM

    PEDs don’t teach you how to play the game, they just improve your results. Hence the name “performance enhancing drugs,” but you knew that already.

    • paperlions - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:35 AM

      Link?

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:24 AM

        I love the argument that PEDs don’t enhance performance because it gets me to ask the question:

        If PEDs don’t do anything, then why do players risk so much to use them?

    • 1943mrmojorisin1971 - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:36 AM

      Exactly. I do not like PEDs. I think less of athletes who get caught using them. I didn’t much care for Braun’s denials, nor his attorney-crafted sorry statements.

      But PEDs didn’t give him that sweet, 110% swing. Didn’t give him slick fielding skills either. Outfielders who can hit bombs and make plays with the glove are a big reason I watch baseball, so in that sense I’ll always like watching Braun as a ballplayer.

      As for Braun the human being? Well, karma can only be portioned out by the cosmos.

    • daveitsgood - Apr 9, 2014 at 2:05 PM

      phiten bands, bracelets and necklaces and any other voodoo jewelry don’t do anything either, yet players continually wear them and swear by them. So because players use them, you ask the question, if phiten bands and voodoo jewelry don’t do anything, then why do players continue to use them? Is it perhaps that players are extremely susceptible to the powers of suggestion and will try anything that they thing can help improve their performance or recovery time regardless of fact based evidence? Begs the question in absence of evidence.

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 2:36 PM

        I’ve had this conversation with someone else today and I’ll say the same thing to you I said to him:

        Phiten bands, rally caps, wearing the same socks every day because you’re on a hot streak – none of those carry the same negative consequences as being caught for PED use (suspension, ridicule, etc). If they did, do you believe players would still use them?

        Comparing a player’s use of those bands or other voodoo tokens to PEDs is akin to saying “I want to become a billionaire, I can accomplish this by either carrying around a rabbit’s foot or by robbing banks.” Likely neither of those things will help you reach your goal, but the negative consequences for robbing banks are a lot greater than those of carrying around a rabbit’s foot.

    • paperlions - Apr 10, 2014 at 9:05 AM

      Prayers don’t do anything and people still do it. People do a lot of things that have no effect or that don’t have the desired effect.

      There is a huge difference between taking steroids and working out more to get stronger and that increased strength resulting in more production on the field.

      Provide me with on citation for steroid use generally enhancing baseball performance and an estimate for how much an an effect it has. Just one.

      • chip56 - Apr 10, 2014 at 11:25 AM

        Another dumbass comparison. You don’t face a penalty for praying, wishing for good luck, wearing a pair of lucky socks, wearing a phiten necklace, going through a special routine before each at bat or wanting a particular song to play when you come to the plate.

        You do face pretty substantial penalties for PED use. So either you believe players are so stupid that they would risk what they do for a purely placebo effect.

        Can steroids take a person who has no athletic ability and turn him into a professional ball player? Nope, not at all. They’re not called Performance CREATING Drugs, they’re about enhancing through the ability to work out harder and recover faster, thus ENHANCING one’s natural abilities.

        That you horse’s asses want to run out the same tired logic “PEDs don’t enhance performance” shows that you clearly do not understand the meaning of the word enhance.

  2. Stiller43 - Apr 9, 2014 at 6:42 AM

    “In other news, Braun was booed lustily while Marlon Byrd was treated just fine by the hometown crowd.”

    Sure theres team loyalty in there, but youre flat out ignoring what a colossal douche braun was about the whole process. And the fact the season he failed the teat was when he won NL mvp. People care a lot more about cheating when its combined with outstanding results – see rod, a.

  3. chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 6:52 AM

    Also most people don’t know who Marlon Byrd is or that he cheated. Being a superstar like Braun or Rodriguez means the accolades will be greater and the criticism harsher.

  4. proudlycanadian - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:05 AM

    Most teams have played 8 games and the standings in the AL are tightly bunched. Even the last place Red Sox are only a game and a half out of first place in the AL East. There is some separation developing in the NL as 4 NL teams only have 2 wins.

    • cur'68 - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:29 AM

      The division is as hotly contested as ever. Our Boys have the advantage of playing one of the worst teams in all baseball this set, though. If they can do better against the Astros than The Empire did, then we’ll see who’s who in the division. They face the bottom 3 pitchers in the Astros rotation, so they have a crack at pummelling them.

      The improved IF D is paying off, Melky’s back to being Melky, Bautista is Bautista, Lind is showing signs of hitting lefties and righties, and both Buehrle and Dickey are starting off much better. If the rest of the team can coalesce into decent players Our Boys are going to move smartly up in the division.

      • proudlycanadian - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:33 AM

        The Jays are a half a game out of first place in the AL East. Tampa Bay took a hit with Moore’s injury. Both Boston (Dubront) and New York (Nova) have starting pitchers of dubious quality. The Jays certainly have a chance.

      • cur'68 - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:44 AM

        I agree, but I think The Rays are too good, even without Moore. They have a hot hitting lineup, they play excellent defence, and they have Price, Archer & Cobb: likely the best 3 pitcher rotation in the division.

        It won’t break my heart to see Our Lads come in second to that team, but for that to happen they need to match that rotation.

        Morrow has got to throw strikes. Huchison too. The IF D is finally shaping up. If Reyes can get on the field, it gets even better. If that happens then Our Boys can run with The Rays, especially once E5 starts hitting.

    • drewzducks - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:52 AM

      Correction: last place Sox AND O’s.

  5. thedoubleentandres - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:05 AM

    That was pretty funny, I watched the videos of Brauns Home Runs just this morning and theres a guy in the background screaming CHEEEEAAAAATERRRRR!!!

  6. bigjimatch - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:07 AM

    I see Craig has nicely made the transition from arguing that Braun didn’t do steroids, to Braun may have done steroids, but they didn’t help. Talk about homer loyalty.
    People don’t dislike Braun because he did steroids, they dislike him because he lied about and tried to blame the sample collector for the whole thing.

    • Craig Calcaterra - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:34 AM

      Please find one example of me arguing that Braun didn’t do PEDs.

      • paperlions - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:37 AM

        Now now Craig, if we have learned anything from the “Hank Aaron is the Home Run King” thing, it is that people get to choose their own facts. Stop being a fascist.

      • jimmyt - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:58 AM

        It’s hidden behind your creepy man-crush on him.

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:19 AM

        It’s true, Craig has never argued that Braun didn’t use PEDs. He’s only suggested that he doesn’t care that Braun used PEDs…which is wholly his right. Just as it is wholly the right of others to care that Braun used PEDs.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:09 AM

        Another classic example of your bottomless intellectual dishonesty, Chip. Where did Craig ever write that he didn’t care? Pardon me if I go do some chores, which include standing the Costa Concordia upright, while you look for an example.

  7. proudlycanadian - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:08 AM

    Melky’s performance this season is a big change over last year. Last season, he was hampered by a tumor in his back that was attached to his spine.

    • paperlions - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:38 AM

      Yeah, well, everyone knows that tumors on your spine is the risk you take when you do steroids.

      • proudlycanadian - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:39 AM

        Eh?

      • paperlions - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:55 AM

        Sarcasm. While not the greatest think in the world for you, the health concerns related to taking steroids are over blown….compared to say, amphetamines, or alcohol, or cigarettes, or lots of other things that don’t get the “danger” label.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:02 AM

        Let’s talk about steroids, then. I watched a “sneak peek” yesterday of some previously unreleased scenes from the forthcoming American Godzilla film. He’s something like four times the size of the original monster from the 1954 prototype. Now all you Godzilla apologists out there, just try to tell me that he’s been eating nothing but krill and plankton for the past sixty years.

        And yeah, following five and a half decades of Haruo Nakajima in his Muppet suit, despite the cutting edge CGI this movie looks like it’s going to suck too. About the only positive thing I can report, on top of another slapdash script, terrible acting (how do you write a script so awful that Juliet Binoche comes orf like a bimbo fresh from the casting couch), gratuitous extra monsters that look like someone’s pet hermit crab – on steroids, that is – and more angry environmental moralizing than you’d find in a Greenpeace zodiac full of PETA rejects, is that at least this Godzilla doesn’t look like Don Shula anymore.

      • cur'68 - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:16 AM

        You know its going to be said, right? If Melky keeps up the pace he’s on that’s precisely what people will say; he got the tumour from the ‘roids. Never mind that LOTS of people get tumours and have never taken a steroid. No. Lets just play the narrative that fits the story we want to tell.

        Well, whatever.

        I don’t care if people claim Melky is on the extract of a radioactive, hypergonadic, bioengieered bull/stallion-hybrid stud-dragon’s semen: so long as he can keep up the hitting and not fail the tests that’s good enough for me.

      • spudchukar - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:37 AM

        Thanks a lot OG. Not only is Juliet Binoche my favorite actress of all time, now I find out she is in a lousy movie. This isn’t how I like to wake up.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:16 AM

        I didn’t set out to ruin your morning. For me she will always be the wife of the police captain from The Widow of St. Pierre or, perhaps most of all, Michele from Les amants du Pont-Neuf. If you want to blame someone, go blame Gareth Edwards, the director of this forthcoming travesty, or maybe even better, Frank Darabont, the guy who wrote this execrable script. Juliet is certainly guilty of no worse than, say, Laurence Olivier for appearing in The Betsy or Peter O’Toole for Caligula. Sometimes you gotta just put some coins in your pocket, you know?

      • voteforno6 - Apr 9, 2014 at 1:52 PM

        I think she gets a pass for appearing in the Three Colors trilogy. As long as she doesn’t appear in a Transformers movie, that is.

  8. Eutaw's Finest - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:17 AM

    20 hits. 14 runs. On the road. Yea I’d say the O’s got that monkey off their back.

    Also I’d like to note that I got my wish with Young starting and Lough on the bench. And it paid off big time! Speaking of paying off the 3 man blackhole of Lombardozzi, Flaherty and Schoop had 8 hits combined!

    It sure was a thing of beauty but it all means nothing if the bats go cold again today against God. Sorry I meant Tanaka. (Relax, I’m just poking fun this time)

  9. kcrobert10 - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:18 AM

    So many home runs yesterday oh wait I forgot I’m still waiting for the royals to hit 1. Bases loaded 3 times and we scored nothing wow. The lone run in the game came in the ninth when Holland in a non save situation walks a guythen wild pitch then a ground ball to a guy who had never pplayed 2nd base before in his life. I needed a drink still might need another one.

    • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:32 AM

      You’re in Kansas City. What’s the point of a drink without having a good steak to go with it?

  10. southpaw2k - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:32 AM

    Wieters and Cruz are tied for leading dem O’s hon, while Chris Davis has yet to hit his first dinger of the season.

    Up is down, back is front, left is right, Aquaman is superior to Batman, and pie is better than cake.

    • proudlycanadian - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:36 AM

      I was about to give you a thumbs up until I saw the comment about pie being better than cake.

      • southpaw2k - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:39 PM

        Has the concept of cheesecake ever entered the “pie vs. cake” debate? It’s clearly shaped and designed like a pie, but it obviously has “cake” in its name.

    • nbjays - Apr 9, 2014 at 11:09 AM

      He’s right on that… pie IS better than cake.

      Don’t despair about Crush with no dingers yet. EE hasn’t hit one yet, either, but this will change.

  11. Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:48 AM

    The Feesh are returning to Earth like a North Korean drone. After taking back to back series at home from the Rocky Mountain Oysters and the Pod People, they ran into a team with a real pitching staff and the ability to recognize a scoring opportunity when they see it. 0-4 RISP against Gio Gonzalez and a quaternity of relievers who were breaking out their rigor mortis with a few innings of soft toss. Henderson Alvarez pitched very well himself but was undone by the kind of support that Sisyphus gives his boulders, including (and apt to the extenuated metaphor) a pretty bad boot by Jeff Baker in the 6th which led to two unearned runs. Scrooge McLoria’s renowned aversion to generosity has been encouraging his fielders to donate more outs to opposing teams in an effort, one assumes, to gussy his image. Meanwhile Rafael Furcal – who belongs to Scrooge McLoria now, remember? – remains on the mend so the middle infield remains deadlanded, with Baker and Derek Dietrich sharing the bumbling until his return.

    Despite the fact that the team was on the road, spectatorship at Macondo Banana Massacre field was announced at about 7,150, what what with the Feesh spin department reporting absent season seat holders, clerical employees, ground crew, municipal utility workers and concession inventory control personnel as paid attendance. Seasoned Rainbow Warriors watchers, however, understand that this was a dry run for the mid-season attendance reportage on days when El Keed is not on the mound.

    • groupofsevenrules - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:17 AM

      Uh oh, Gator’s on a roll this morning. I had a very long night at work with a clueless replacement foreman and came home to find these two posts and they almost redeemed a lost seven hours. Where did you see the Godzilla scenes with the superfluous monsters? I could only find the two trailers. But you’re right about how much bigger he looks. I don’t think this is a good thing, however.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:38 AM

        Group – here’s a good site for “scoops” on the new Godzilla film, though I gotta say that each one induces a tad more heartsink: http://www.scified.com/

        I would much prefer to have stuck Hideki Matsui in the rubber suit and gone with the old Akira Ifukube roar. Ah well.

        Nice imitation, BTW. Most likely a product of REM deprivation.

      • Shayna - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM

        Not at all, OG. Syntax and, in particular, word order are among the hardest obstacles to overcome when learning a second language. Vocabulary is a cinch by comparison. Presumably Yoda’s linguistic oddities reflect the syntax of his native Yoddish, just as the mangled pronouncements of native Spanish speakers may reflect the syntax of Spanish or our own former Prime Minister, Jean Chretien. left inescapable traces of French all over his lumpy English — and this with speechwriters! Noun-adjective instead adjective-noun combinations, “the more” something instead of comparative and superlative forms for adjectives — the French genotype always overwhelmed the attempted English phenotype. Doubtless, so also with Yoda.

      • Shayna - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:55 AM

        Phnoo! This was intended as a reply to OG’s comment below about Yoda’s linguistic awkwardness.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 12:53 PM

        That’s OK, Shayna. I was able to make the connection despite my irremediable Newtonianism. However, bear this in mind: I’m not talking about one of my early morning comp course football scholarship students here. For some students, who have been communicating with snorts and grunts while channeling their high school coaches, mastering the syntax of their own supposedly nacherl-born language was a challenge.

        I’m talking about a bicentenarian Jedi master here.

      • voteforno6 - Apr 9, 2014 at 1:42 PM

        Actually, I thought that Yoda was 800 years old. That being said, of greater interest to me than his casual approach to a consistent syntax is how his teeth were able to last for so long. Did he get implants? Was he wearing dentures? One would think that the enamel on his original teeth would have worn off long before he was sighing at the impetuousness of Luke Skywalker.

    • voteforno6 - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:19 AM

      Hey, at least the Fish are trying…not once did I see one of them give up on a play and call for a ground rule double.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:54 AM

        Do or do not. There is no try.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:19 AM

        Incidentally, come to think of it, hasn’t it ever struck anyone as odd that a 200-year-old all wise Jedi master still can’t put together a simple English sentence?

  12. nymets4ever - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:54 AM

    Philly fans have some serious nerve. How can you NOT like a ginormous a-hole cheater who dragged innocent people down in the abyss of his lies? Especially one who is Craig-endorsed? Oh wait, all players of that variety are Craig-endorsed. lol

    • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:07 AM

      I would bet that you don’t find yourself funny for anything like the same reasons that so many others here find you ridiculous. I would even go so far as to say that the others find you more ridiculous than you find yourself funny.

  13. unclemosesgreen - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:54 AM

    I wonder what happens to all of the Sawks’ team chemistry and brotherhood of beards narratives if (almost) the same guys with the same manager finish last in the AL East again.

  14. chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 7:59 AM

    Craig, in reference to PEDs you have blamed the league for overreaching, the media for overreacting and the union for capitulating yet you’ve never once blamed the players for using banned substances.

    If PEDs are so irrelevant then why do players risk so much to take them?

    • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:08 AM

      Chip, don’t you ever bore yourself to sleep by endlessly repeating the same tired distortions and misrepresentations of what Craig has written?

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:08 AM

        What am I distorting or misrepresenting?

        Has Craig written about the league overreaching in trying to catch and penalize PED users? Yes.

        Has Craig written about members of the media overreacting to PED users? Yes.

        Has Craig written that the Union was short-sighted in the way it capitulated in both the Biogenesis case and subsequent negotiation for stricter penalties and testing? Yes.

        Has Craig said that players who use PEDs know going in that among the possible results they face are ridicule and scorn from fans, colleagues and members of the media and therefor have no one to blame but themselves when confronted by said ridicule and scorn? Not that I’ve seen.

        So again I ask, what has been misrepresented or distorted?

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:27 AM

        You are a mere acolyte at shifting the goalposts. Try not to be so obvious in the future.

        As you have doubtless noticed, I don’t agree with Craig’s take on standing MLB records set by users, especially in the case of convicted obstructionist and former android Barry Bonds. Ergo, you should appreciate that I distinguish between my disagreement with him and my weariness with you. The inference of your comments has always been that Craig is an “apologist” for PED users, or that he hasn’t “blamed” them for using, all of which is complete BS. That he has criticized the league, the media or the player’s “union” is not only fully justified but completely besides the point. He has never “defended” players for using PEDs, period.

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM

        Gator –

        I can show you examples of columns by Craig where he goes after the league, media and union yet not a one where he says that users are getting the ridicule they signed up for by using.

        That has been the argument all the way through – it has been consistent. If you can find a writing of his that I missed that states that players are wrong for using or should take the punishments handed out (either by the league or public opinion) please feel free to share.

      • Old Gator - Apr 9, 2014 at 1:15 PM

        Straw men again. Yeah, we know Craig has criticized the press, the union and the league. But that’s still not the point. You’ve accused him of being a defender or apologist of drug use numerous times, and that’s not the same thing as defending due process or being opposed to a lynch mob mentality. We’re back to the same thing: where has Craig ever justified or validated drug use? Simply, he never has. So cut the BS and stop implying that he does or ever has.

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 2:43 PM

        I have never said that Craig has justified or validated drug use. I think you have me confused with someone else.

        What I have said is that he has never said, “know what, I may not agree with Braun being vilified, but he knew what he was getting into when he took steroids – so it’s on him.”

        The issue I have, in general, is each side’s refusal to admit to the merit of the other side. For example, I’m sure there are plenty of people who, like Craig, don’t care that a player used PEDs and that’s fine. But that side refuses to acknowledge the right of those people who DO have a problem with it to use their voices.

    • Francisco (FC) - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:49 AM

      Why do players wear the clearly useless phiten necklaces

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:13 AM

        I’ve heard this argument before and it always makes me laugh, but I’ll play along anyway. Let us assume that PEDs have no more tangible impact on a player than phiten necklaces, rally caps or wearing the same socks every day during a hitting streak.

        The downside to using a phiten necklace – you look like an idiot.

        The downside to using PEDs – suspension, scorn and ridicule by your peers, fans and the media.

        My guess is that if the league were to assign similar punishments to those necklaces players would stop wearing them.

      • Francisco (FC) - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:54 AM

        I’m glad you had a laugh but the point remains, players will do anything they THINK will help them, whether it actually does or not. You just assume it does, I’d like to see actual research done.

        I wonder what will happen if Ryan Braun (who is presumably getting tested far more often now) puts up great numbers this season what conclusions will be drawn.

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:20 AM

        I laugh at it because the point is silly. If PEDs have no greater impact than a Phiten necklace then the fact that players risk what they do (suspension, negative fan and media reaction) by taking PEDs is even dumber. Just wear a stupid necklace and move on.

        It’s like saying my odds of having a billion dollars and retiring to a small island in the Bahamas are just as good if I wish on a star as they are if I rob banks. The difference is that the penalties I face if I get caught robbing banks are a lot more severe than the ones I would face if I wish on stars.

      • Francisco (FC) - Apr 9, 2014 at 11:24 AM

        Again you’re purposely missing the point. Ignoring it won’t make it go away. But have fun with your strawman, I guess you like playing with yourself in public.

        Again, Players will do anything they THINK helps them, but that doesn’t mean it actually helps them. To ask why a player does something if it doesn’t actually help them is not proof that what they do actually helps them. For example Ron Washington like to bunt a lot and it doesn’t help, but he keeps doing it. Josh Hamilton slides into first base despite the fact that it doesn’t really help. There are many examples of this, Phiten necklaces is just one more and the more obvious example I chose to illustrate the point.

        Are you still going to play with your strawman or at least acknowledge the point?

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 11:31 AM

        I am not only acknowledging the point you’re trying to make, I’m saying that, for the sake of this argument I agree with you.

        PEDs are placebos — fine, I don’t actually agree with that, but for the sake of this argument let us believe that to be the case.

        My argument is that you are still trying to compare a placebo with punishment associated with its use (the necklaces) to a placebo with extremely harsh penalties associated with their use (PEDs). It’s a laughable comparison to make.

        If the league and union tomorrow voted to ban phiten necklaces and said that anyone caught wearing one would be suspended for 80 games, do you believe players would keep wearing them?

      • Francisco (FC) - Apr 9, 2014 at 11:50 AM

        Then you’re not understanding the point at all. I’m not comparing a placebo with penalties to a placebo without one. You have completely gone off to left field.

        I even provided other examples (bunting and sliding into first base) but you continue to be fixated on Phiten necklaces. It was merely inteded as a device to illustrate a point not to be a point itself. You’re trying to argue something that I’m not arguing about.

        Let’s speak plainly:

        You say: “Why do players try to use something if it doesn’t help them.” the implication being that if the players are using PEDs it’s because it helps them, otherwise if it didn’t they would not use it. Sounds rational correct?

        I say: “Just because a player uses something that he thinks will help him doesn’t necessarily mean it actually helps him.” Meaning that baseball players are generally not rational people, they are a highly superstitious lot, set in their ways.

        Brandon Phillips thinks he’s good because he had 100 RBIs last year despite the demonstrable fact that RBIs are a function of teammates getting on base so you can drive them in not a repeatable skill by itself. Bunting is usually more harmful than helpful but teams keep doing it. Managers continue to not use their best reliever on the road in tie games (i.e. the closer).

        You’re asking me to believe that baseball players using PEDs is rational because if they had no effect baseball players would not use them. I do not believe baseball players are rational. If a study came out today saying Steroids are completely useless in helping a player you would STILL have guys using no matter what a % of the players would believe it helps them.

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 12:01 PM

        So now you’ve gone from PEDs = Phiten necklaces to PED = bunting or misusing your bullpen?

        Talk about a strawman argument…

        I am not asking why would a player use something that doesn’t help him perform. I am asking why, if PEDs are not effective in enhancing performance, would players risk what they do to use them?

        Your response to that question has been to throw out other items that you insist have no positive outcome: phiten necklaces, bunting, poor bullpen management but those arguments are irrelevant because none of them carry the consequences associated with PED use.

        The second question I’m asking you is: If a player faced a suspension for bunting or for using a necklace or wearing a rally cap or any “placebo” that you care to bring up, do you think he would continue to use it with the same regularity that players use steroids?

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 2:48 PM

        So what you are saying is that baseball players, at least the segment that use PEDs are so stupid, so uneducated and so superstitious that they will risk suspension and the kind of scorn that they face from their fellow players and the fans to use something that has zero impact whatsoever on their ability to play baseball?

        I’m not sure if you’re being intentionally naive or if your opinion of the education of players on the science of biofitness is really that low.

      • chip56 - Apr 9, 2014 at 2:53 PM

        and, by extension, what you’re also saying is that players are so superstitious and irrational that if MLB and the Union agreed that anyone caught wearing a phiten band or rally cap would be subject to a 50 game suspension – there would still be players who used them?

      • Francisco (FC) - Apr 9, 2014 at 12:15 PM

        So now you’ve gone from PEDs = Phiten necklaces to PED = bunting or misusing your bullpen?

        Talk about a strawman argument…

        The only strawman being set up is by you by purposely misconstruing what I’m talking about and presenting it as my argument. Repeating it won’t make it so. I even spelled it out for you so you would stop with the nonsense. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, maybe my use of the first example misled you into thinking I was arguing something else, but despite my clarification you continue insist on things that are not so. OG is right, you purposely misrepresent what people say to suit you. If you’re going to argue have the decency to properly represent what is being said. I’m done here.

        I am not asking why would a player use something that doesn’t help him perform. I am asking why, if PEDs are not effective in enhancing performance, would players risk what they do to use them?

        It’s the same answer, because they THINK it helps them gain huge benefits that are worth the risks and consequences. They all look at Barry Bonds and say: “Yeah, I want that.” They never stop for a moment to think how much of that was actually steroids and how much of that was actually Barry Bonds (we don’t know) and whether it will help them a little, a lot or not at all (there are no studies, we don’t know).

  15. chill1184 - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:09 AM

    Where did Farnsworth find that 94 mph fastball?

    • sdelmonte - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:06 AM

      In Matt Harvey’s locker?

    • jwbiii - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:30 AM

      2007, I think.

  16. historiophiliac - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:44 AM

    Clearly, Beautiful Brad refuses to learn from history and must repeat it in ignorance. Twice he has gone to Phil Win-killer Coke and gotten the results I expected. The question is: why didn’t his handsomeness expect it? Going to him and hoping the planets realign as in a brief window in 2012 is not realistic bullpen management.

    His Heterochromianess wasn’t brilliant last night — but still good. We tied it up. I think God rewarded me for the Aaron post yesterday by giving Joba a great inning. But the Lord giveth and Beautiful Brad tooketh away.

    Announcing highlight of the game:
    Mario: Dee Gordon comes in to bat. He’s listed at 160 pounds.
    Rod: Soaking wet.

    Also, I loved all the Tigers fans in short sleeves enjoying some warm weather for a change…While Dodgers fans snuggled in their hoodies.

    • unclemosesgreen - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:55 AM

      Trying to kill the win makes Phil Coke a sabermetric hero.

  17. janessa31888 - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:51 AM

    Hey, even I forgot David Murphy was playing for the Indians. Nice way to remind us, Murph.
    Our pitching is so shaky right now. I groaned when I heard that Trevor Bauer is starting one of the double header games today. Prepare for a feast, Padres.

  18. historiophiliac - Apr 9, 2014 at 8:52 AM

    PS Could we all agree to keep ATH PED argument-free? There are other posts for that and I am not reading them for a reason. It would be quite nice to be able to avoid that conversation and not have to participate if one chooses. ATH is supposed to be for discussing game reviews. I would enjoy it if we kept it that way.

    • happytwinsfan - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:09 AM

      it looks like we have to accept the fact that we’re doomed to the PED stuff every day braun hits a home run, is lustily booed, hurts his thumb, or whatever.

      • historiophiliac - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:12 AM

        No, we can choose our conversation. I may just step out for a bit is all.

  19. happytwinsfan - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:04 AM

    i see the twins picked up half a game on the frantically fleeing tigers. i also checked runs allowed so far and the twins have allowed fewer runs than both the diamondbacks and the rockies. looking good. here’s hoping hughes can go deep into mid game today.

  20. scoutsaysweitersisabust - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:18 AM

    Ugh, so sick of the ridiculous, pointless PED debate. Personally, I’m so done with the conversation. Back to baseball.

    The O’s put down a real whoopin on the Yankees yesterday. Gave us a real good glimpse of what that offense is fully capable of. I’m sure they will max out at 1-2 runs a game for the next week to compensate. But it sure was fun to watch.

  21. spyder9669 - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:24 AM

    Uhhhh the video of brandon belt is vs oakland. they played arizona yesterday….

  22. sportsdrenched - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:34 AM

    “James Loney‘s RBI single with two outs in the bottom of the ninth provided the game’s only score. In other news, someone please tell me how a 1-0 game can go three hours and thirteen minutes.”

    The game was in Kansas City, it was the top of the ninth.

    Any game that Wade Davis is involved, even though he only pitched the 8th, will take longer than it’s supposed to.

    Also, The Royals really need to get on this HR thing. Fun fact, The 2005 Royals, who lost 106 games, have outscored this current Royals team through 7 games….by 10 runs!

  23. bgrillz - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:42 AM

    Giants scoring in large bunches, Brandon Belt getting his second go around with Barry Bonds, Bonds spends a week in training camp giving hitting tips…coincidence? I think not. Dude should be more than just a week, he should be with the team daily. The man knows hitting, regardless of your opinion on him. 47 runs in 8 games, that’s a pretty good start.

  24. schmedley69 - Apr 9, 2014 at 9:46 AM

    Back on steroids? Who says he ever stopped taking them?

  25. Jonny 5 - Apr 9, 2014 at 10:13 AM

    In the case of Phills fans lustily booing Braun. It is fan loyalty at work here. Braun was ALWAYS booed lustily at CBP including the times before he was busted cheating. I saw fans threatened with ejection for how harsh they were. Trust me it has more to do with his quality of play vs. the home team than any other factor. Getting busted just sprouted low hanging fruit for the fans to pluck from the vine of vitriol they always expressed against one Ryan Braun. That is all.

    • stupidusername - Apr 9, 2014 at 11:30 AM

      I can’t say the boos weren’t louder because of the PED stuff, but any player that gets that many hits vs the Phillies in CBP will be loudly booed. 90% of the boo was because of his hits and jersey color. I imagine this would be the case in most ballparks, although maybe louder in Pittsburgh being division rivals?

      That’s Craig’s point, though. Right? He’s not pinning Phillies fans down as being OK with PED’s as long as it’s their players that do it.

      I was at a game where Carlos Lee was booed just as loudly. My memory says it was a few years back, he had a huge multi-HR game, I was sitting in left field, he was booed when he got out to his position every single inning. His last HR, the boos were ones of just total disgust. I had to look it up for exact stats: 2007, 3 for 5, 3 HR’s.

      • Jonny 5 - Apr 9, 2014 at 1:26 PM

        Yes, that was the point. I agree based off actual experience on my part. Based on common sense more so on his. C’mon, an mvp in the NL that is facing the Phillies at home? They get it no matter what. His #’s against the Phills can speak for themselves, it’d quite disgusting actually. .392 avg .435 obp .739 slg. He frequently dismantles the Phills. He’s like 7th best of all time actually vs. Philly. I can’t stand the guy because of it.

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